8N reverse drive

[joeysmith]

Anyone know if it's possible to convert these to a backwards tractor fairly easily?
Cannot find any pictures or information do I'm assuming the answer is no but thought I'd asks the pros
Thanks!!

 

[Sean in PA]

Not sure what you mean by a "backwards tractor". Do you mean one that's been converted to a fork lift or something similar? As long as it's got the original 4 speed transmission and the Sherman reverser was made for the 8N, then it will fit in the transmission, but you will probably need to modify the external shifter with some sort of linkage so that it can be reached easily if you're sitting backwards on the tractor.

 

[joeysmith]

Not sure what you mean by a "backwards tractor". Do you mean one that's been converted to a fork lift or something similar? As long as it's got the original 4 speed transmission and the Sherman reverser was made for the 8N, then it will fit in the transmission, but you will probably need to modify the external shifter with some sort of linkage so that it can be reached easily if you're sitting backwards on the tractor.

Yes forklift style
Didn't know if it was possible to flip the ring gear around like some models

 

[Sean in PA]

Yes forklift style
Didn't know if it was possible to flip the ring gear around like some models

Flip the ring gear around??

 

[Sean in PA]

All of the various Sherman auxiliary transmissions (step-down, step-up, combo and reverser) replace the input shaft on a the 4 speed transmission, so they always sit inside the bell housing near the clutch, and the shaft for the shift mechanism comes out the side of the bell housing with a handle on the end. You would need to make some sort of extension for that handle so that you could reach it while you are sitting on the rearward facing seat.

 

[joeysmith]

Flip the ring gear around??

Yes some model tractor you can move the ring gear to the other side of the pinion shaft in the reared
Then you still have the one reverse gear an same amount of forward gears
They just make the tractor move in the opposite direction

 

[YosmiteSam]

Not sure what you mean by a "backwards tractor". Do you mean one that's been converted to a fork lift or something similar? As long as it's got the original 4 speed transmission and the Sherman reverser was made for the 8N, then it will fit in the transmission, but you will probably need to modify the external shifter with some sort of linkage so that it can be reached easily if you're sitting backwards on the tractor.

The Sherman reverser sounds like the complete answer. I can't understand why he would need to modify the shift linkage though.

When he wanted to go backwards he would shift the Sherman to make it so and then turn the seat around or twist his body around and then his neck even further around and drive it backwards. When he wanted to go forward he would stop, turn the seat around or straighten his spine around so his arm could reach the shifter linkage.

 

[joeysmith]

The Sherman reverser sounds like the complete answer. I can't understand why he would need to modify the shift linkage though.

When he wanted to go backwards he would shift the Sherman to make it so and then turn the seat around or twist his body around and then his neck even further around and drive it backwards. When he wanted to go forward he would stop, turn the seat around or straighten his spine around so his arm could reach the shifter linkage.

Yea one of those would be ideal but unfortunately this tractor does not have one.
Looking at marring a forklift mast to a tractor an have a few options setting around.
Was wondering if the little ford was a possibility is all

 

[joeysmith]

Something like so

 

[used red MN]

Flip the ring gear around??

I know this can be done on many Farmall final drives. The differential is flipped 180 degrees and drives on the opposite side of the pinion, so the rear axle is driven backwards in the normal forward gears. This also requires a different top cover with the gear shift and shift rails swapped to the right side because when flipped the ring gear is now where the shifter was originally and it has no clearance. IH had this setup mainly to place a tractor as a drive unit for a cotton picker.
Joey, a Ford 8N has no bull gears so the differential sets between the rear wheels on the axle centerline. The differential cannot be flipped because of the offset of the casting that mounts the pinion gear shaft, see red circle in the photo. If you could see the other side you would see there is not room there for the ring gear or maybe vise versa, ya the other side is where the ring gear sets.

 

[joeysmith]

I know this can be done on many Farmall final drives. The differential is flipped 180 degrees and drives on the opposite side of the pinion, so the rear axle is driven backwards in the normal forward gears. This also requires a different top cover with the gear shift and shift rails swapped to the right side because when flipped the ring gear is now where the shifter was originally and it has no clearance. IH had this setup mainly to place a tractor as a drive unit for a cotton picker.
Joey, a Ford 8N has no bull gears so the differential sets between the rear wheels on the axle centerline. The differential cannot be flipped because of the offset of the casting that mounts the pinion gear shaft, see red circle in the photo. If you could see the other side you would see there is not room there for the ring gear or maybe vise versa, ya the other side is where the ring gear sets.
View attachment 115264

That tells me exactly what I was looking into
Appreciate it!!!!

 

[Sean in PA]

The Sherman reverser sounds like the complete answer. I can't understand why he would need to modify the shift linkage though.

When he wanted to go backwards he would shift the Sherman to make it so and then turn the seat around or twist his body around and then his neck even further around and drive it backwards. When he wanted to go forward he would stop, turn the seat around or straighten his spine around so his arm could reach the shifter linkage.

The issue is that the tractor has a fork lift conversion. The fork lift is at what would normally be the rear of the tractor where the 3 point arms would normally be, and the seat faces the opposite of on a normal tractor also. The controls, including the steering wheel, gear shifter, throttle, choke, etc. have all been relocated to make them convenient to reach with the seat facing in the opposite direction from normal. There is likely also a lot of sheet metal between the seat and the bell housing, so it would be difficult to reach the normal position where the Sherman control handle would be.

 

[YosmiteSam]

A tractor won't make a very good forklift. It's a size of the wheels issue.

When a load is picked up, and is up several feet in the air, it's a great big bummer to have the forklift and load pivot around the drive axle, and then dump the load, at which point the steering axle, which has been lifted up into the air, comes crashing down.

So making the drive wheels small moves that pivot point closer to the load and closer to the ground. A smaller wheel, smaller the better, engineering wise increases what size load it can safely lift and carry.

So forklifts need to have the smallest wheels and tires that can carry the load. Otherwise they dump the load.

As far as being useful that homemade forklift in the photo above looks too dangerous to use to me.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

A tractor won't make a very good forklift. It's a size of the wheels issue.

When a load is picked up, and is up several feet in the air, it's a great big bummer to have the forklift and load pivot around the drive axle, and then dump the load, at which point the steering axle, which has been lifted up into the air, comes crashing down.

So making the drive wheels small moves that pivot point closer to the load and closer to the ground. A smaller wheel, smaller the better, engineering wise increases what size load it can safely lift and carry.

So forklifts need to have the smallest wheels and tires that can carry the load. Otherwise they dump the load.

As far as being useful that homemade forklift in the photo above looks too dangerous to use to me.

Small tires work great on hard solid surface. On most farms a "rough terrain forklift" aka a backwards tractor forklift is superior.

Many tractors were converted to forklifts over the generations. And many OEM's produce them off the assembly line.

 

[Jim.ME]

A tractor won't make a very good forklift. It's a size of the wheels issue.

When a load is picked up, and is up several feet in the air, it's a great big bummer to have the forklift and load pivot around the drive axle, and then dump the load, at which point the steering axle, which has been lifted up into the air, comes crashing down.

So making the drive wheels small moves that pivot point closer to the load and closer to the ground. A smaller wheel, smaller the better, engineering wise increases what size load it can safely lift and carry.

So forklifts need to have the smallest wheels and tires that can carry the load. Otherwise they dump the load.

As far as being useful that homemade forklift in the photo above looks too dangerous to use to me.

I have to disagree with you on this, they are work horses. I'll take one of these any day working on a site without pavement, over a small-wheeled forklift. Rough terrain forklifts have been a mainstay on construction sites for years. All are basically a tractor model with the gear train and controls modified so that forward travel is with the large wheels forward. (Some early loaders were "reversed tractors as well.) Some of the major tractor manufacturers built and offered them in their product line. Some teamed up with specialty companies that put the forklift gear on the manufacturer's machine. The reach/extend-a-boom lifts are now taking a good bit of this market due to increased versatility, but the straight machines are still out there working. Here are a few.



And without proper counterweight for the load to be lifted and carried big or small wheels will go on their nose just as quick, Its proper counterweight, not wheel size.

 

[joeysmith]

A tractor won't make a very good forklift. It's a size of the wheels issue.

When a load is picked up, and is up several feet in the air, it's a great big bummer to have the forklift and load pivot around the drive axle, and then dump the load, at which point the steering axle, which has been lifted up into the air, comes crashing down.

So making the drive wheels small moves that pivot point closer to the load and closer to the ground. A smaller wheel, smaller the better, engineering wise increases what size load it can safely lift and carry.

So forklifts need to have the smallest wheels and tires that can carry the load. Otherwise they dump the load.

As far as being useful that homemade forklift in the photo above looks too dangerous to use to me.

Its a great big bummer to have a small wheeled forklift stuck in the mud to

 

[YosmiteSam]

The length of the tractor matters as well. The stadics factors are not hard to set up. What I was saying is the size of the wheels matter because they factor into how much the leverage the load exerts on the axle pivot point, which must be opposed by leverage produced by the length of the tractor times it's added counterweight.

Notice most of those shown above are large diesel machines designed with modest sized tractor tires, which suggests their manufacturers tended to the wheel size problem I'm talking about.

However the first two are smaller machines, look homemade. The first looks like a Ford 600 series with standard full sized field wheels, I don't think it could lift an 8 foot bunk of lumber off of a truck without tipping when it tried to back away from the truck with the lumber.

The second an International, a diesel with undersized smaller wheels than it came with. It's larger than the 600 and it looks like it would do alright, it could unload an 8 foot bunk, but it wouldn't be able to lift a 16 foot bunk of lumber without tipping forward.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

The length of the tractor matters as well. The stadics factors are not hard to set up. What I was saying is the size of the wheels matter because they factor into how much the leverage the load exerts on the axle pivot point, which must be opposed by leverage produced by the length of the tractor times it's added counterweight.

Notice most of those shown above are large diesel machines designed with modest sized tractor tires, which suggests their manufacturers tended to the wheel size problem I'm talking about.

However the first two are smaller machines, look homemade. The first looks like a Ford 600 series with standard full sized field wheels, I don't think it could lift an 8 foot bunk of lumber off of a truck without tipping when it tried to back away from the truck with the lumber.

The second an International, a diesel with undersized smaller wheels than it came with. It's larger than the 600 and it looks like it would do alright, it could unload an 8 foot bunk, but it wouldn't be able to lift a 16 foot bunk of lumber without tipping forward.

Not every machine needs to lift a pack of lumber. When used within their designed specs they are great machines. Know your lifting capacities and know your load.

 

[jwal10]

The second tractor is an Allis Chalmers, they had smaller rear wheels....James

 

[joeysmith]

Im just spitballing putting together some stuff i have laying around the farm
Lol
Got a warehouse forklift that's pretty well worthless around the farm an a few tractors setting around that dont get much use
Seems the obvious answer is to marry them up
Looks like the wd might be the candidate