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8n starts hard

Yesterday's Tractor Forums
We need some more info.

6v or 12v, front or side distributor?

When is the last time you changed the points, plugs, condenser, rotor & cap & set the timing?

Ever done a compression check on it?
75 Tips
 
Start turning engine with the starter then fan the choke is not unusual and does not indicate anything is wrong. It is quite normal.My "47 - 2N with 12 volt system has never started quite as readily as my Dad"s "46 -- 2N with the original 6 volt system..
 
I have 10 vintage Ford tractors. Some need choke to start, some don't. I am only concerned when it needs choke to continue running.
 
starts hard? elaborate..


multiple crank attempts?

have you checked spark?

have you checked compression? ( check spark first ).

post back
 
sorry about the response time. Just know figuring out this web page. It has 90psi on the first hit by the 3rd has 110. Has spark and all ignition parts are new. seems to be flooded but then seems to not pull fuel and air charge through the intake manifold. but plugs are always black but dry.
 
cold it just cranks and cranks until it starts seems to need full choke for 30 seconds the pops and then some more cranking with playing with the choke until it starts the cloud of smoke like its flooded, then runs pretty good but after shutting off warm it will not start unless choke is used and then it smokes like is was flooded. BUT WILL NOT EVEN TRY TO START WITH OUT THE CHOKE.
 
yes it has 90psi on the first hit and 110 by the 3rd and it has spark when it is cranking and not starting. all new ignition parts. Other info it all started after putting in new crank seals, cleaned and painted when assemled. The timing marks are lined up on the cam and crank gear.
 
90 psi are the minimums.. but it should start with those easilly.

try a test with start fluid and no air cleaner.
 
thank you for the response but will not fire that way with brake clean or carb clean have not tried starting fluid yet but will try tommorow
 
will not fire will starting fluid, does catch a little bit. when useing the choke fuel runs out of the carb inlet.
 
if it is running.. it's not a cam / crank problem.

PS. the data you are giving is in conflict.

you say it will not ignite start fluid... yet you say it WILL run.

those 2 statements are mutually exclusive, in that you need spark to run.. and spark will pop starter fluid lots easier than gas.

I'd look back over the basics.

make sure you have a good battery, cables, grounds, clean starter and that she spins fast.

can even use 2 batteries. one JUST hooked tot he coil.. and the other for the starter. sometimes you can have low coil voltage and hard starts.. but ok running.
 
with enough tries it will start without starting fluid. but when trying with starting fluid it did not start up any faster or different with it. meaning starting fluid made no difference.
I know there is next to no spark timing adjustment unless cam to crank is off but marks are lined up.
 
(quoted from post at 01:53:14 11/30/13) with enough tries it will start without starting fluid. but when trying with starting fluid it did not start up any faster or different with it. meaning starting fluid made no difference.
I know there is next to no spark timing adjustment unless cam to crank is off but marks are lined up.
Click to expand...

I have a 2N that acts exactly the same as your 8N. Carb is from a good starting/running tractor. Timing is set as all my others. Every spark check is ok . I'm leaning toward worn and or poorly sealing valves or a small intake leak. Haven't done a compression check. Runs like a dream once started though, never even attempts to miss at standstill or under load, and can work it for an hour or two or shut it off after a minute, and once again hard to start. But, I just finished rebuilding a 8N sidemount that had 3 burnt to hades exhaust valves, the other pretty burnt and all 4 intake valves wore out, and it started really well. :?:
 
have not tried but could try and jump box direct to the coil no resistor. the battery is new but that would separate the cranking circuit form the ignition circuit
 
no change on the starting with the jump box on ignition lead, but did start after multiple tries and ran great. leaned the main jet needle until missfire started under load. lowered engine idle and shutting ignition off at lower idle speeds seemed to help the hot restart but still needs choke on the hot restart. MORE INFO.. THE STARTER BENDIX KICKS OUT ANY TIME A CYLINDER FIRES, IT DOES HAVE THE UPDATED 12V BENDIX BUT THAT SEEMED TO MAKE NO DIFFENCE.
 
something is not adding up...

you say it has great spark. it's getting air.. you are introducing fuel via starter fluid, and you say it has good compression.

not much else it needs to start easy other than timing.

have you checked the timing?
 
yes things dont add up. I got that figured out. thats why i need help. just went out to try to start her. first try today. and not even a pop, when choking fuel is running out of the carb air inlet. so i put another set of new plugs in it and it fired up on its first second of cranking and ran great for about a half an hour of tractor rides. shut off waited about 2 hr went back to start it and it took alot of choke but started and now its down at least one cylinder. HOW CAN A UPDRAFT CARB FLOOD SPARK PLUGS BEFORE IT EVER TURNS OVER? UNLESS SPARK IS WEAK OR TIMING IS WAY OFF.
 
ignition is made up of this, new points and condenser and breaker plate new 12 volt coil 2.5 ohms. resistor .6 no oem ballast resistor and new ignition switch. autolite 437 new wires cap and rotor. none of these parts and adjustments made and difference. set breaker timing by the book and points are at .15 there is no other timing adjustments unless cam to crank timing is off, since distributor is driven directly off the cam with no adjustements. could it have 90 plus psi of compression being off a tooth on cam timing and still be within spark timing to still start? and run great.
 
yes .015 points gap. spark has been blue and other times it check its orange. I may have asked this before but could there be two different marks on the crank shaft gear that i got mixed up when reinstaling the crank shaft.
 
if i remove spark plugs, spray starting fluid directly into the combustion chamber and reinstall plugs, instantly fires up. this is when engine is cold. will not start with spray through the carb when engine is cold. but will start instantly hot when using starting fluid though the carb, other wise cranks alot with the coke then fires.
 
have done that. I am ready to give up. I have it for sale and showed it today, got started and ran good for the showing but try to start it 5hrs later and no go with starting fluid 3 different sets of plugs. when checking spark, it is blue. this saturday going to pull the front cover again and check if i missed something when reinstaling crank shaft. I dont think i have another choice. This is not fun anymore
 
(quoted from post at 19:29:38 12/04/13) how would you check spark besides visual with a spark plug grounded?
Click to expand...

You check spark by the distance it jumps in open air. !/4" means you have about 22kv going to the plugs.
 
yes it does jump a 1/4 gap on every cylinder, did just get it started had to hold my hand over the carb inlet until there was alot of vacuum then it fires, pull my hand off and its running.
 
just removed dis, put in a vise, put the coil on, with no cap or rotor, attached the ground clamp from a jump box on the dis housing, hooked up power to the coil turned the dis shaft with a cordless drill, test light ground to the housing and probe to the coil outlet and get intermitted spark from 1/16 to 1/4 in then no spark then spark again i am assuming this would not be normal?
 
(quoted from post at 16:18:56 12/05/13) just removed dis, put in a vise, put the coil on, with no cap or rotor, attached the ground clamp from a jump box on the dis housing, hooked up power to the coil turned the dis shaft with a cordless drill, test light ground to the housing and probe to the coil outlet and get intermitted spark from 1/16 to 1/4 in then no spark then spark again i am assuming this would not be normal?
Click to expand...

Why are you doing that? You just said you have a 1/4" spark at each cylinder.

Your spark is fine.

Have you screwed around w/ the timing?
 
just try to check everything. i checked and
adjusted ignition timing by the book. Did have
the crank out to replace crank seals and thats when
it all happened. i keep assuming i have cam timing
off but compression checks do not support that
theory
 
(quoted from post at 02:35:35 12/06/13) just try to check everything. i checked and
adjusted ignition timing by the book. Did have
the crank out to replace crank seals and thats when
it all happened. i keep assuming i have cam timing
off but compression checks do not support that
theory
Click to expand...

You have spark.

You have compression.

Only one thing left.
 
fixed the tractor yesterday, bought a napa 6v
coil installed it and added 1.5 of resistor to the
other .6 and know runs and starts every time you
can hear spark snap ever time instead of only
seeing it. returned 2 new 12v coils back to
tsc. both coils tested good on the primary side
but not the secondary, made spark but must not of
been enough. either way stay away from tsc coils
12v. 2.5 sticker on them
 
Ive been having similar problems with a newer 8N engine and I find that for some reason the coke does not draw enough gas in - or so it seams.
If I remove the tube and put my hand over the carb intake to make a solid close it will start easily!
Yet when I look at the butterfly it closes OK but did notice it has a half moon opening in it as if it was never intended to close 100%.

Whats going on?
Ive tried all the recommended adjustments.
 
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