8N Voltage Regulator - Polarize?

[JerryinVA]

Hi. I searched the forum for an 8N (very early model) wiring diagram to help troubleshoot my front-mount, 6V 8N (with a 2N engine, BTW). Found the diagram from a discussion of just 10 days ago on an 8N voltage regulator. In the discussion thread, Gary as well as the instructions on the pic of the V/R says to polarize before starting. How do you do that, and what does it accomplish?

Troubleshooting because the ammeter shows continuous 20 amp charging even after running for a half-hour; and, the battery had to be replaced due to being dead. Would a new battery need a long period of charging, even though it started the engine really fine?

Thanks,
Jerry

 

[JerryinVA]

Regarding the "how do you do this" question...never mind. I read the rest of the instructions on the v/r. But what is it that gets polarized?

Also, the question on the ammeter and battery still stands.

Jerry

 

[Colin King]

Jerry,

It sounds like you have the polarizing covered ... but just in case... you polarize at the VR by arcing the first and second terminals on your VR. They are Bat and Arm (meaning battery to armature).

The generator is what gets polarized (the armature is the copper winding inside the generator.). The battery provides the polarity.

If you are showing that kind of charge rate, that is not good. You're cooking your battery, and will likely ruin it. Is this a 30 amp gauge?

I'm guessing that the cut-out is stuck in the voltage regulator. But it could be a wiring problem as well. Check your wiring, and clean the connections. Then gently tap your vr. Holding a screw driver to the housing and tapping with a hammer is what I've done. Does the amp meter jump? Does the charge rate drop? Or stay the same? If it stays the same, I would replace the regulator ($26 bucks).

Hope that's helpful.

Colin, MN

 

[Dell (WA)]

Jerry.........polarizing makes certain BOTH the genny field and the V/R internal cutt-outt relay core are correct for the BATTERY GROUNDING polarity. Yer 6-volt tractor came from the factory with POSITIVE GROUND. Surprizingly enuff, neither the starter ...or... genny care as long as you "polarize" first before starting the engine after replacing either the battery ...or... voltage-regulator.

2nd question answer is.....yer "full-fielding" yer genny with incorrect GROUND. I suspect yer genny field and ground terminals are "swapped". Full fielding causes the genny to MAX CHARGE.

Max charging will BOIL yer battery dry and KILL yer battery........Dell

 

[Bob]

Colin,

You posted: "The generator is what gets polarized (the armature is the copper winding inside the generator)."

ACTUALLY, what gets "polarized" is the direction (polarity) of the residual magnetism of the iron poleshoes inside the FIELD windings AND the iron "belly" of the generator itself!

 

[Colin King]

Hey Bob,

Thanks for the further explanation.

Colin

 

[souNdguy]

Colin.. the cutout sticking would not make a high charge rate. Field sticking or shorted would make a high charge rate.

soundguy

 

[souNdguy]

That's too much/too long a charge.

Check to make sure your genny field post really is wired to the field tab on the VR.. and that the genny field is not accidentally grounded.

I'd disconnect the field wire at the genny and reg.. if charge drops, then use a jumper wire to make the connection.. if it is ok after that, then your wire harness has a shorted ( to ground ) field wire.

soundguy

 

[Colin King]

Soundguy - Hmmm. I'm confused (clearly). I understood the cut-out to adjust charging current? But that's not correct? The cut-out merely prevents battery discharge?

When your talking about a stuck field, your talking about the resister on the back of the VR? And it's that resister that is regulating the charging rate of the generator? Does increasing the resistance have the same effect as making a poor ground?

Colin

 

[Ed S.]

Jerry,

You didn't just buy a new VR from TSC, did you? Been chasing the same problem with my freshly rebuilt '50 8N frontmount, two-brush genny, new battery, wiring, gauges and VR...

In my case, I know for sure all my grounds and wire connections are correct and in working order - it's just that I can't get the genny and VR to talk to each other politely - I'm currently (hah!) showing about a 15 amp constant charge rate. The silver lining is that the headlights are super bright (at least until they burn out)...

I'll be manually adjusting the VR (again) this evening to see if I can dial in a correction. In your case, I would chase wiring first as suggested above. "Clean, bright and tight" at every connection, and no shorts inbetween. Use an ohmmeter to check...

es

 

[souNdguy]

The cutout connects the armature of the generator to the battery tab on the regulator.. when the gen quits making juice on the armature ( tractor off ), then the cutout pops open.. otherwise you'd have a big discharge on the ammeter as your batter drained back thru that motor ( generator ).

The field circuit in avreg is more or less a resistor, and a set of contacts. The contacts actually short across the resistor. When the field contacts are open, the resistor provides a little field current so that yourammeter needle don't bounce wildly.. when the contacts are closed the resistor is out of the circuit and the fiedl is getting full power.. however.. the contacts vibrate back and forth real fast.. so you get current 'averaging'. or duty cycle.. that's why the reg is called a mechanical 'vibrating' regulator.

Technically you could make a crude vreg with a big wire would variable resistor and a knife switch... switch is the cutout... variable resistor is the field control.. set as desired.. Kinda like a 3rd brush genny.. etc.( little different.. )

soundguy

 

[JerryinVA]

No, still has the same ol' v/r as always.

 

[GB in MT.]

(quoted from post at 09:01:03 07/10/08) Hi. I searched the forum for an 8N (very early model) wiring diagram to help troubleshoot my front-mount, 6V 8N (with a 2N engine, BTW). Found the diagram from a discussion of just 10 days ago on an 8N voltage regulator. In the discussion thread, Gary as well as the instructions on the pic of the V/R says to polarize before starting. How do you do that, and what does it accomplish?

Troubleshooting because the ammeter shows continuous 20 amp charging even after running for a half-hour; and, the battery had to be replaced due to being dead. Would a new battery need a long period of charging, even though it started the engine really fine?

Thanks,
Jerry

b:e6d233c5cb][i:e6d233c5cb]
Jerry;
I hope I am reading this right. Don't want to look like an idiot. :lol:
I'm thinkin' you have an early 8n running gear with a 2n engine, and you are still using the early 8n "A" circuit charging system!!!!???? IE...8n generator and Voltage regulator....RIGHT???
If that is the case here is a diagram that I made up for my 2N, with the same charging system. early 8N "A" circuit genny with Voltage regulator.
2N engine.
This should work for your wiring. Check it out against your existing wiring, before you start changing things around.
And yes.....Polarize at the V/R before starting your engine.!!!!

Hope this is what ya need to help solve your prob.

Gary

[/i:e6d233c5cb][/b:e6d233c5cb]