8n will not run

ernest hook

New User
I have an 8n Ford front dist. mount 6 volts. Starts good but will only
run for 3 or 4 seconds. Changed ignition switch, points, condenser
and plugs. Re-built carb. and cleaned air filter.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Thanks
.
 
It takes three things for an engine to run: spark at the right time, compression, & fuel in the right mixture. For the moment, forget about compression & concentrate on narrowing the problem down to spark or fuel.

There are three very important tools you always need to have in your N tool box: a 3 inch piece of wire w/ alligator clips on each end, an old spark plug w/ the gap opened to at least 3/16” ( ¼” is better) and a 7/16 box end wrench. (see tip # 50 at the link below) And, you really do need a working ammeter on the tractor; it is a very important diagnostic tool. With these tools, you can quickly narrow down most N problems to spark or fuel.

Next time it stops, check quickly for fuel then spark. When I say quickly, I mean get off the seat, grab the tools & do it right then. Do not wait a minute or two. First, check for fuel. Get a can & put it under the carb. Remove the bolt in the bottom of the carb; as long as the fuel is turned on, you should see gas flowing out of the carb. Let it run for at least 30 seconds. If it’s a dribble, or runs for 5 seconds & stops, or none at all, you have solved half the problem: it’s fuel related. If gas flows well out of the carb & only stops when you turn it off at the sediment bowl, chances are very good it’s not a fuel problem. So, next, turn the key on, crank the engine & look at the ammeter. What is the needle doing? Does it show a constant discharge, no movement at all, or does it move back & forth slightly? Next, get the old plug, ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine, turn the key on & crank the engine. If the spark jumps the 3/16” gap, you probably don’t have a spark problem. If it won’t jump the 3/16” gap, you have a spark problem. If the ammeter needle shows a constant discharge, or doesn’t move at all, that also tells you that you have a spark problem. Jump the ignition switch w/ your jumper wire & see what happens. If it runs, you found the problem. If it doesn’t have spark after you jump the ignition switch, post back for more info on further troubleshooting. (and do not forget to turn the ignition switch off; see tip # 38)

If it does not have gas coming out of the carb at a steady stream w/ the bolt out for at least 30 seconds, you have a fuel problem. First, remove the gas cap. Your vent could be clogged & it vacuum locked. If that doesn’t work, tap the carb bowl w/ a hammer handle in case the float is sticking closed. (don’t whack it w/ the head of the hammer; you can crack the bowl). If you still don’t see gas flowing, the N has three fuel screens; one in the brass elbow, one in the top of the sediment bowl & one on the stem of the sediment bowl in the gas tank. Check the screen in the elbow & the screen in the top of the sediment bowl. (don’t worry about the one in the tank) Both probably need to be cleaned. If you have the fuel knob turned on all the way, & 1 gallon or less in the tank, it may be trying to feed off of the reserve inlet which is probably clogged. Only open it 2 full turns. Put at least 2 gallons in the tank. (and do not forget to turn the gas off; see tip # 9)

There are ways to check for spark & fuel that work & ways that don't. For example, having gas to the carb is nice, but having it past the float is what counts! That’s why removing the 7/16” bolt in the bottom of the carb is the way to check for fuel. And, same thing w/ spark at the plugs. Some folks think that checking for spark means pulling a plug wire off & looking for one. Well, it's the distance the spark jumps at the plug that gives you the info you want. It takes about 17kv to jump a 3/16" gap & 22kv to jump ¼” in the open air. Remember, it’s 14psi outside of the engine & about 90psi at a 6:1 compression ratio in the cylinders & compressed air creates electrical resistance, so you really need the 17-22kv to fire the plugs when the engine is running. A store bought plug checker will work better than an old plug because it won’t shock the snot out of you like an old plug might!
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Have you checked the fuel flow out of the drain plug on the
bottom of the carb?
Should run a steady stream for 2-3 minutes. (about a pint in that time)
Catch the fuel to check it for water and dirt.
Put it back in the tractor if its good.
If you don't have a good steady stream there are three screens
to clean. One in the elbow going into the carb, one above the glass
sediment bowl and the last on top of the sediment bowl assembly
inside the gas tank. I would leave that one for last.
 
Runs 3-4 second well I would start by hot wiring it. Run a wire from the ignition side of the battery to the coil. If it then starts and runs just fine then your problem is from the distributor back. If it does not then it could be in the distributor and maybe a bad new condenser or lack of fuel. Also try pulling the drain plug and let the fuel flow for a few minutes. Catch it to make sure it is not full of water/dirt etc. Poor flow could also be the problem
 
Do I jump the ignition across the ignition switch or across the resistor? My tractor has a toggle switch for ignition.

I'm pretty sure I have a spark problem. Spark plug has a spark at normal gap. When i gap it at 3/16, no spark.

Would a weak spark be caused by a problem confined within the distributor? Distributor cap is rather old.

Had good gas flow from bottom of carb.
 
" Do I jump the ignition across the ignition switch or across the resistor?"

If you want to jump the ignition switch, you jump the ignition switch.....not the resistor.

(BTW, toggle switches have burnt up a lot of points & coils; it's too easy to turn them on by mistake)

There are a number of reasons for a weak spark. In no particular order, and probably not all inclusive:

1. Using the wrong resistor on a 12v conversion.

2. Dirty/bad/fouled/wrong plugs. (check out tip # 7)

3. Carbon core (automotive) plug wires (tip # 27)

4. Incorrect point gap (.015) or worn points

5. Incorrect plug gap (.025)

6. Worn rotor and/or cap.

7. Worn out ignition switch putting resistance in the circuit

8. Weak battery

9. Bad grounds/connections in the ignition circuit.

10. Rarely, a bad coil.

Before you check anything else, make sure you have the correct voltage at the top of the coil. It should be battery voltage w/ the points open & about half that w/ the points closed.

Next, make sure your battery is fully charged.

Don't guess; put it on a charger.

You need a strong battery to:

1. Close the solenoid

2. Spin the starter

3. Engage the bendix

4. Provide voltage to the coil.

As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark. If the battery is almost totally dead, all you will hear is the solenoid clicking.

The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition.

Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok*, & that you have correct voltage to the coil, the most common electrical failure (no spark, weak spark) points on the frontmount are:

The insulator under the brass concave head screw & where the copper strip attaches. (it’s fiber & will wear out; poke & prod w/ your meter leads to make sure it still works)

The pigtail at the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the concave head brass screw inside the distributor. (With the coil on, the pigtail must firmly contact the brass screw. No contact = no spark.

The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate. (look very carefully for cracks & breaks)
The condenser wire grounding to the plate or side of the distributor.

The tab on the bottom of the coil not making contact w/ the brass button on the cap. (With the cap on, the tab must firmly contact the brass button. No contact = no spark.)

Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground. (the open part of the clip goes between 7 & 9 o’clock on the plate. That puts the straight part of the clip opposite of the timing screw at 3 o’clock)

Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket.(the coil must not move at all; if it does, replace the gasket or bail. Or stick some cardboard under the bail).

Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket. (the cap AND coil have gaskets)

Dirty/corroded/burned/incorrectly gapped or misaligned points.

Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap.

Unless the coil is cracked or shows a dead short, chances are it's fine; square coils rarely fail cold. Pull the distributor & do a continuity check.

First, make sure your meter/light works (don't ask....)

You can change points everyday & it will not fix bad bushings. If you are having trouble w/ points failure, check the shaft. If you detect movement, it needs new bushings. If you are using QUALITY** points and can not get the gap open to .015, replace the bushings.

Inspect the points; if they are pitted or burned, replace them. Next, dress the points by running a piece of card stock or brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. Make sure the points align correctly. Proper alignment is also critical to longevity. Look at the points when they are closed; both sides should mate evenly. Then, check the gap at .015 on the high point of all 4 cam lobes.

Now, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil mis-aligned trying to put it back together one piece at a time & the result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. What ever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts) Then place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Then, hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush w/ the timing gear cover.

Finally, double check your firing order & plug wires. It’s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It’s very easy to cross 3 & 4.

Post back w/ results & any other questions.



*Unscrew the plate hold down screw & remove the C clip to get the plate out. Remove the shaft & weights. The weights should freely move.

** Wells, Echlin, Blue Streak or CNH.
75 Tips
 
I'm now getting a good 1/4 inch spark at no.1 plug.

However, I still cannot get it to keep running after it starts unless I continue to hold down the starter switch after it starts.

Have you ever heard of that? I just now discovered it by accident - I held the starter down too long. Didn't tear up anything.
 
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