8N Won't Start...Exciting, I know

[The Reverend Floater]

Hi Folks,

I'm brand new to tractors and brand new to Ford 8N's. I live in the mountains of Idaho and just bought my first tractor for use around the ranch--mainly snow removal and other small tasks.

It's a 48 8N, still a 6 volt, front blade. I've used it all summer and it usually starts and runs great. I'm a shade tree mechanic with my cars, so I gave the old girl some basic love like a radiator flush, oil change, etc. I don't know ANYTHING about tractors though.

Today I was running it in order to change the three point from a ballast weight to a blade for snow season and it suddenly died. I tried to start it again, and it sputtered, then died again. When I tried to start it again, NOTHING. The starter didn't turn over, not a peep except a faint click. I tried again and not even the click. I waited 5 minutes, tried again, and heard the very faint click.

Any ideas? I'm sorry I don't know more specifics about the machine but I'm just getting to know her.

Thanks!

 

[jeffalex2]

Weird, but, it sounds like your charging system
quit and the battery died. Another possibility is
that something in the electrical system shorted
and THAT killed the battery. Also, the battery may
have sulfated (deposits bridge some plates in the
battery) which reduces or eliminates the battery's
ability to supply current.

Put a volt meter on the battery and see if you
have 6-7 volts. If so, leave the volt meter on the
battery and turn the ignition on...should stay at
6-7 volts. If not, put a charger on it and see if
it will take a charge. If the charger shows that
the battery is already charged, probably sulfated.
If it draws current from the charger, you can let
it charge up and see if she fires back up...then
you know you have a charging system issue.

Confused?

 

[The Reverend Floater]

Thanks Jeff!

I thought this could be a possibility, seeing as I've had to charge the battery on it before (Date is July of 08 on the battery) but I don't know....it died, then when I started it, the starter didn't sound that slow, then it sputtered, then nothing at all.

Would a battery with your symptoms drain that suddenly?

I was thinking more along the lines of a starter solenoid or coil, based on what I know from my 79 F150.

Thoughts? I'll throw that thing on the charger tonight and see what happens.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" I was thinking more along the lines of a starter solenoid or coil, based on what I know from my 79 F150. "

One thing is for certain.....it's not the coil. That's in the ignition circuit, not the starting circuit.

It could be the solenoid, but probably not.

But you did provide us w/ an important bit of information: " not a peep except a faint click. "

The click is from the solenoid. The solenoid is making a noise because of low voltage. That is likely caused by:

1. A weak battery (charge it & check it per tip # 49))
2. Dirty grounds/connections (remove the cables & clean the connections)
3. Bad cables or incorrect sized cables (replace them - see tip # 41)
4. Bad ground between the starter & the block. (pull the starter away from the block & clean the mating area - see tip # 36)
50 Tips

 

[Dell (WA)]

Padre........yer 8N has a starter mounted 3-terminal solenoid. It really doesn't take much electrical power (battery) to make it go clicky-click. ...BUT... 6-volt batterys are NOT very hairy chested and with COLD weather, they loose their cohonies and short out internally. It takes about 150-amps to turn the starter motor.

Normally, notta BIG deal but in cold weather, it is. A semi-discharged battery will semi-recharge itself as yer 5-min wait proved. ...BUT... a semi-discharged battery will NOT turn a COLD engine with COLD oil. Bottom line, sounds like you either need a 6-volt charger charge ...or... most likely a NEW 6-volt battery. Batterys don't live fer ebber.

I recommend (byte my tongue) John Deere 6-volt tractor batterys. They are more heavy duty made than Sears Die-Hards which die EAZY. ........eazy starting 6-volt Dell

Who reminds you to WIRE-BRUSH the starter end-plate and tranny hole for eazier starting. Just remove yer 8"-screws and puller out fer about 1/2" gap and wire-brush away. simple, eh?

 

[The Reverend Floater]

Man, this place is awesome. I've learned mechanics via the internet on my trucks, etc. (yes, it can be done) but I'm loving the attitude here.

Okay...so battery is prime suspect, especially given the age and the fact that it's very cold here.

For the record, the motor was warm, dare I say hot, so cold oil, etc. does not apply.

And after I thought about it, I knew it wasn't the coil--the starter would still turn.

I checked the battery ground and it was fine. All wires, including ignition, looked fine at first glance. So I'm thinking battery or solenoid at this point and I'll be sure to let you guys know what the culprit is once I find it.

THANKS for the help!

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" I knew it wasn't the coil--the starter would still turn. "

The coil has nothing to do w/ the starter turning. It provides the high voltage for the spark plugs.
50 Tips

 

[The Reverend Floater]

UPDATE: Got the battery checked. It was DEAD when I brought it in, he put a full charge on it, then measured it and it was fine.

So, I brought it home, slapped her in and hit the start button--the starter engaged, but it didn't start immediately (not surprising as it's cold here and I didn't plug her in). So I let off for a second.

Hit the start button again and....click. Again....click.

So we've ruled out the battery. My next inclination is the starter solenoid. Agreed? If not that, then the starter? Anything else in this equation that I'm not thinking about?

Also, can I try the hammer-to-the-starter trick on these to see if it knocks it loose or is that a bad idea on these old tractors?

THANKS!

 

[trouttman]

(quoted from post at 18:54:00 11/28/11) UPDATE: Got the battery checked. It was DEAD when I brought it in, he put a full charge on it, then measured it and it was fine.

So, I brought it home, slapped her in and hit the start button--the starter engaged, but it didn't start immediately (not surprising as it's cold here and I didn't plug her in). So I let off for a second.

Hit the start button again and....click. Again....click.

So we've ruled out the battery. My next inclination is the starter solenoid. Agreed? If not that, then the starter? Anything else in this equation that I'm not thinking about?

Also, can I try the hammer-to-the-starter trick on these to see if it knocks it loose or is that a bad idea on these old tractors?

THANKS!

Every time I have had a click it has been a weak battery or a loose or dirty connection. Just as Bruce and Dell posted.

trouttman

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" My next inclination is the starter solenoid. Agreed? "

No. It's nothing more than a hv switch. They are often replaced & rarely defective.

When you get suggestions, you would be wise to read all of them. This is what I told you on Sunday:

The click is from the solenoid. The solenoid is making a noise because of low voltage. That is likely caused by:

1. A weak battery (charge it & check it per tip # 49))
2. Dirty grounds/connections (remove the cables & clean the connections)
3. Bad cables or incorrect sized cables (replace them - see tip # 41)
4. Bad ground between the starter & the block. (pull the starter away from the block & clean the mating area - see tip # 36)

You have ruled out # 1.

My suggestion is that you work your way down the list. When you complete items 2,3 & 4, it will most likely start. If not, post back for info on checking the solenoid & the starter.
50 Tips

 

[Caryc]

Pay attention to what Bruce told you. I was doing some dirt road repair and stopped the engine for a minute, went to start it again and click...click.

It jump started OK from my neighbors 8N. Got it home and checked it out. The problem was only dirty connections at the starter. Cleaned and wire brushed everything and it was then fine. Connections can look fine to the eye and still be too dirty to conduct as they should.

As people on here keep saying about the electrical system...clean, bright and tight.

 

[Britcheflee]

You can jump start it with a 12 volt battery as I have done on a number of occasions - I think the info on how to do that is in the 50 tips?



Lee

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Yep. Tip # 43.
50 Tips

 

[The Reverend Floater]

Thanks Guys. Tomorrow the first thing I will do is check the connections....it's dark before I go to work and dark by the time I get home, so it'll have to wait until tomorrow when I'll have some time during the day at home. I will certainly update you afterwards.

Cheers,

TRF

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Yea, post back w/ results.
50 Tips

 

[The Reverend Floater]

Went out and cleaned each connection thoroughly with a wire brush, taking my time.

Went to fire her up and.....vroooooooom! Ignition in about 2 seconds. I've fired her up a few times since, no problem.

I am humbled.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Cheaper than replacing a solenoid......or starter, huh?

For appropriate penance, say ten 6 volt Mantras:

" Clean, bright & tight."
50 Tips

 

[Caryc]

I guess that's why people keep repeating that saying as Bruce did above. It makes a believer out of a lot of people.

 

[The Reverend Floater]

Reviving this topic because it's doing it again. Assuming all connections are clean, what are the other suspects, in order of inspection?

 

[36 Coupe]

Just replaced one of those rarely defective solenoids on my truck.Put a voltmeter on it and caught it.Failed to deliver power to the starter 3 times.3 loud clicks but no crank.Also learned that there is a protective diode in new solenoids that keeps hi voltage spikes out of the ignition module when the contacts open.Warning printed on the old solenoid.Checking the ohms reading on the solenoids coil by reversing the leads proves the diode is present.This may be the answer to SS ignition module failure when a new solenoid is used with out checking for diodes presense.Electrical diagram does not show the diode in the Haynes manual.

 

[DollarBill]

Reviving this topic because it's doing it again. Assuming all connections are clean, what are the other suspects, in order of inspection?

If you're certain that all of your connections are good, the next order of business is making sure your battery can take and hold a proper charge. You do this by first charging the battery and then "load test" it. Just checking the voltage right after charging isn't going to give you a true indication of the battery's ability to hold a charge.

If the battery checks out my next play would be to bypass the solenoid by connecting the battery straight to the starter [b:c2e4653ab5]after checking three times to make sure the transmission is in neutral.[/b:c2e4653ab5] You will need a very good jumper cable to do this check. Most modern 12 volt jumper cables aren't up to the task - Wire gauge should be at least 1/0 in size - 2/0 would be even better.