8N Won't Start in Cold

Bisco

Member
8N tractor will not start in cold. Has new voltage regulator, plugs and wire since summer Adjusted carbs in warmer weather. wondering if it is
running too rich. It turns over, sounds like it is almost ready to start, then starts and disengages from the flywheel and won't start. Any ideas on
what to do?
 
6v or 12v? Front or side distributor?


Hard starting in cold weather has a lot of likely causes. So take your time can read through this list. Oftentimes you will discover multiple problems.



No matter what else you do, the battery must be fully charged. A float charger is helpful; not a trickle charger, but a float charger. A battery charger, even a trickle charger, left unattended will eventually boil out a battery. I use float chargers for two reasons: battery longevity and a sure start. Battery sulfation occurs at a specific rate at X temperature. Over time, sulfation reduces battery performance and eventually its effects are irreversible. Sulfation of batteries starts when specific gravity falls below 1.225 or voltage measures less than 12.4 for a 12v battery, or 6.2 for a 6 volt battery. Sulfation hardens on the battery plates reducing and eventually destroying the ability of the battery to generate current. Using a float charger significantly reduces sulfation. Your battery loses 33 percent of its power when the temperature dips below freezing, and over 50 percent of its power when the temperature falls below zero. If you have a digital volt meter, 6.03 volts on a 6 volt battery and 12.06 volts on a 12 volt battery is only a 25% charge! I use Deltran battery tenders on all the tractors, the golf cart & 2 Model A's. Pricey, but they work & have in-lines fuses. All are hard wired to the vehicles. (*see below)




If you need to jump it, see tip # 43. No, it doesnt need to be 12v. Plenty of Ns start just fine on 6v in below 0* temps.



Clean grounds & battery terminals are always important. Dont forget to loosen the starter from the block (see tip # 36) and polish the block & all starter mating surfaces w/ sandpaper to insure a good electrical ground.



If you cant remember the last time you replaced the battery cables, its time to do it. Just because the terminals are clean doesnt mean there is no corrosion under the insulation. And, this is another case where size matters (see tip # 41)



A charged battery, clean grounds & new cables arent going to mean much if the tractor needs a tune-up. At a minimum, every fall, remove the cap, check the points for pitting or burning, re-gap them & put a dab of lube on the cam. (BTW..if youve wondered why some folks get years of use out of a set of points.this is one of the reasons). See tips 66, 67 & 68. When is the last time you did that?




Things that arent all that important in warm weather become serious when it gets coldlike timing. A few degrees of timing either way at 60 or 70* isnt likely to result in a no-start situation. Well, it can at 10 or 20*.
Check the timing! Yes, you can set the timing on a front distributor.



Distributor gaskets are important on a sidemount & critical on a frontmount. As is the gasket under the coil. Just like with the battery cables.if you cant remember when you replaced the gaskets, do it this year.



Push the clutch in when you start the engine (tip # 29)



Oil viscosity can make a difference. If the tractor is going to be consistently operated below 20* F, switch to SAE 10w30; at 0* go to SAE 5w30.



Pull the air cleaner cup & check for ice.



Use a fuel stabilizer. Ive used Marine Sta-Bil for years, but recently switched to Star Tron because Sta-Bil has a 1 year shelf life.



This tip wont make it start easier, but it will make it run better: turn the main jet out to 1 full turn for cold weather operating. Cold air is denser so you need a richer mixture.



While each N has its own starting sequence, none of them will start well by just yanking out the choke rod & holding it out for 5 or 10 seconds while the engine cranks. This is a gravity fuel system on a low compression engine; it is easily flooded by too much choke.



Try this:



Key on, gas on 2 full turns, clutch in, 3/4 throttle, press the starter button. Let it crank for at least 3 - 4 seconds before you pull the choke rod. Then, don't hold it out for more than 2 or 3 seconds.



If you find out it will not start w/o excessive choking, you have problems.



If you flood it, the plugs are fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. Replace the plugs. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in brake cleaner.



Folks who live in places a lot colder than I do here in VA will argue about battery blankets or magnetic oil pan heaters as compared to lower radiator hose heaters or dipstick heaters. While the consensus leans toward lower radiator hose heaters, I cant offer a personal observation; the only thing Ive ever used to heat an engine was a 100w light bulb laid against the intake manifold. Freeze plug heaters are difficult to find for Ns because of the limited space in the water jacket. Magnetic oil pan heaters on the intake manifold will help as well. And after you get it started, it will not run as well as it should in cold weather if the engine never gets to it's proper operating temperature.

Use a thermostat! See tip # 25.



And finally..............the tractor won't run very well with a cracked block! Check your anti-freeze; use a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and distilled water.



* Battery Tender website: http://www.batterytender.com/




** This is one of my favorite quotes regarding cold weather starts:



kilroy



07-25-2009 19:19:52

72.13.217.35

724129 <http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=nboard
<http://www.ytmag.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=nboard&th=724129> &th=724129>



my 48 8n is 6v with points in a front mount, and at -30 it fires right up, no block heater, just have to tend the choke for a minute. Have run in the rain and snow and have never had to dry the disributer, just used all the little gaskets and guess it sealed up. I like the points because if they do get wet, dry them, they work again, dont know if the electronics are that way but they cost alot more to replace than points I'm sure
75 Tips
 
(quoted from post at 17:07:25 02/05/23) Adjusted carbs in warmer weather. wondering if it is
running too rich
Well, I'd say Bruce has got you covered. I'll just reiterate one thing he did mention.

A properly adjusted carb in the summer, tends to be a bit on the [b:3a3c3ecfd7][i:3a3c3ecfd7]lean[/i:3a3c3ecfd7][/b:3a3c3ecfd7] side come cold weather. Usually got to open the main jet at least a half turn or so come winter to keep up the power.
 
Probably a weak or dead battery. Always check the battery first. If not kept on a good float charger (DELTRAN BATTERY TENDER) when tractor is in the barn not running, your battery will start to deplete electrolyte as lead cells get weak. You just can't connect a trickle charger to the battery and think it will charge. Take to a local shop and have them test it on their special machine.If bad, invest in good brand unit, not a bargain house brand. While battery is out at the shop, get your wiring diagrams and go thru the entire electrical system. Is it 6V/POS GRN or a 12V switcheroo job? Front mount or side mount? Whichever setup you have, be certain you are wired correctly for that system. Leave carb alone. DO NOT buy any more parts and replace until a true root cause problem solving method is applied and part is proved defective or not.

TBC19a5l.jpg
kBB0I7xl.jpg
xQ2ojiTl.jpg

FORD 8N TRACTOR ESSENTIAL OWNER/OPERATOR/PARTS/SERVICE MANUALS:
2a28IGzl.jpg


Tim Daley(MI)
 


2X what jimtrs posted, along with get it cranking, then close choke, wait for it to be running before releasing choke.
 
Are you choking it? Sounds like you might need a starter drive. Did you pull a spark plug to look at it?
Fully charged battery is first and go from there.
 
I'm choking it for sure. Maybe too much. I'm guessing the plugs were fouled. I thought the same thing on the starter. Thanks for the suggestion.
 
Be very, very careful and judicious with your choke in extreme cold.
There can be a very thin line between starting and flooding.
Once an N is flooded in extreme cold you are screwed until the condition is completely cleared.
If you want to know if you're flooded, loosen the rubber boot from the carb inlet horn and slip the screwdriver along the bottom of the horn in order to pull the boot away slightly.
If fuel drips out, you're done.
In cold weather, I open the fuel valve, depress the clutch (to remove excess starter load), turn the key to ON, depress the starter button and after about 2 revolutions, "out and in" quickly with choke. Repeat if necessary.
You are looking for a 14.7;1 air to fuel mixture.
Initiate the starter and sneak up on it.
It WILL start!
 
Thanks. I really appreciate this. After hearing this from you and others lead me to believe I way over choked it.
 
(quoted from post at 19:32:14 02/06/23) Be very, very careful and judicious with your choke in extreme cold.
There can be a very thin line between starting and flooding.
Once an N is flooded in extreme cold you are screwed until the condition is completely cleared.
If you want to know if you're flooded, loosen the rubber boot from the carb inlet horn and slip the screwdriver along the bottom of the horn in order to pull the boot away slightly.
If fuel drips out, you're done.
In cold weather, I open the fuel valve, depress the clutch (to remove excess starter load), turn the key to ON, depress the starter button and after about 2 revolutions, "out and in" quickly with choke. Repeat if necessary.
You are looking for a 14.7;1 air to fuel mixture.
Initiate the starter and sneak up on it.
It WILL start!


From my 33 years with these old Fords I respectfully partially disagree. The reason is simply that these old Fords have updraft carburetors, not fuel injection. Under low temperature conditions when the choke is closed the intake air stream is drawing the needed strong fuel mixture UPWARD through the manifold and through the intake valves and into the cylinder. If the engine doesn't start and run within approx. four seconds of cranking and cranking is stopped, a significant amount of gas is suspended in the air and gravity is bringing it quickly back down, and out the intake of the carburetor. This is perfectly NORMAL! So it is a good idea to remove the boot in order to monitor the gas situation in cold weather but probably NO gasoline has yet made it to the cylinders. The ONLY way to determine if adequate gas is getting to the cylinders is by checking a spark plug. It should show moisture of gasoline, but unless it dripping gasoline there is not a "flooding" problem. It is important to remember that these old design engines need a VERY rich mixture to start which requires that the choke be closed for long enough for the gasoline to be drawn all the way up and into the cylinders. Yes, it is true that it is a fine line between inadequate mixture strength and flooding, but the updraft system takes much longer than fuel injection. My 1969 Yale forklift with a propane fueled 6 cyl flathead Continental is a good example. At 40 degrees it takes a solid twelve seconds for the mixture to get strong enough for ignition to take place.
 
A few weeks ago,it got down to -10 here and I went out to start my 9n. I just wanted to start it just to see it run,as we didn't get snow on that day. I followed the sequence passed on to me by an older Guy I worked with years ago. My truck was an '48 Dodge with 6v+g 6 cyl engine,and it was cold that day. I pull the choke out,key off and turn the engine one or two revs,then turn the key on with the choke about 1/3 out. It started at -10 as easily as it does at 95.This works well with a hand crank because it's easier to control the speed of the initial revs. You might try this method,if it works,good,if not,it only takes a few minutes.
 
lha ,I really like your method. I think key to your success is turning the key on after it 1-2 revolutions.
You have a second or so before the resister does its job.
My 9N likes full choke for 1 or 2 revolutions if really cold and then turn key on. If it does not start immediately I am out of luck.
 
Choke my 8N and turn it over before turning the ignition on and it will flood. I can tell immediately if it's rich and hold the throttle wide open while cranking and it will start and clear itself out. I don't pull the choke until I've cranked it with the key on and just pull it a little and it will start right up.
There aren't 2 of these tractors that start the same way after 70+ years of wiring repairs, farm engineering and 12 volt conversions.
 
To Tim's point mentioned below, I've found on my '49 8N (front-mount distributor) that simply having a fully-charged battery can make a world of difference when starting one of these under about 40 degrees! Automatic float battery chargers are really great to have for topping off a charge. And under extreme cold, you can also look at other things to aid with taking some strain off of the tractor to get it warmed up, such as a magnetic heater on the oil pan, etc.

I personally have gotten to where I try not to start/run mine in really cold temps. (When you're talking about well-worn machinery that's 70+ years old, sometimes you have to reduce the amount of preventable fatigue they go through that can come back to haunt you with pricey repairs as things that are already old can wear out that much faster.)
 
Yesterday's Tractor Forums

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top