'94 chevy S10 electrical question.

[Fritz Maurer]

I am contemplating an engine swap. Does the speedometer signal go through the trucks computer, and if so, can I use that to power the speedometer, and other gauges, even though the computer is not hooked up to anything else?
Or, are these items on a separate circuit?
Thanks, Fritz

 

[used red MN]

even though the computer is not hooked up to anything else?

What do you mean? I looked back and see you truck has a manual transmission, so meaning the computer would be powered but disconnected from all engine connections because you pulled out the computer controlled engine? I am not sure what the reaction of the ECM would be. If I had to guess it would probably operate the speedometer. Very likely the check engine light will flash constantly.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Yes, you have the facts exactly. The check engine light crossed my mind, but i figured there must be a bulb that can be pulled out of the instrument cluster.

I figured it must be ECM controlled, cuz something has to illuminate the "shift" light, and somehow it knows when the trans is in top gear, and it doesn't light anymore. That bulb would have to come out too.

 

[Sprint 6]

No. On those years gm vehicles, the VSS signal is interpreted by the DRAC module. The DRAC then distributes the signal where needed, i.e. IPC, ECM/PCM, ABS, etc. There were different DRAC modules for each available rear end ratio.

The rest of the gauges on a '94 are direct inputs to the IPC, i.e. sensor for ECM and a sensor for IPC. For instance, it will have 2 ECT sensors, one for ECM, one for IPC. Just transfer IPC sensor to a port on new engine and the gauges should work.

 

[used red MN]

Yes, you have the facts exactly. The check engine light crossed my mind, but i figured there must be a bulb that can be pulled out of the instrument cluster.

I figured it must be ECM controlled, cuz something has to illuminate the "shift" light, and somehow it knows when the trans is in top gear, and it doesn't light anymore. That bulb would have to come out too.

Are you keeping the stock transmission? Seeing “other gauges” now to maintain them if the ECM allows only those functions you would need to utilize the senders out of the original engine. Does the key have a chip in it. If it does and engine parameters are missing while cranking it may not allow the engine to start.

 

[DPittman]

I’m curious about what engine is going in it. Fire breathing 350?

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Are you keeping the stock transmission? Seeing “other gauges” now to maintain them if the ECM allows only those functions you would need to utilize the senders out of the original engine. Does the key have a chip in it. If it does and engine parameters are missing while cranking it may not allow the engine to start.

Keeping stock T-5. No chip in key. Using original senders in replacement engine should work ok.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I’m curious about what engine is going in it. Fire breathing 350?

That hasn't been settled yet.... have to be something long and skinny to fit next to the air conditioner. One contender is a 5.7 Diesel out of my Cadillac, but I'm torn about losing my air, cuz it won't fit with that giant heater box.... plus have to go automatic, and we're back to the speedometer problem (among other things) since that speed sensor won't fit a Turbo 350.

Another possibility is F5L912 which will fit, since I wouldn't be needing a radiator, and has a bell housing to which the T-5 can readily be adapted.

No, I'm not building a tire burner, was primarily interested in economy. I feel kinda bad not rebuilding the 2.2, that engine really impressed this Ford guy. Dang little bullet-proof push rod motor that did the work of a one-ton for a long time. Gonna keep it, though, under the bench until I find another use for it.

Ford had a Diesel Ranger at one time, but that power train would be hard to find, and expensive. Want to use the engines i have lying around. This process is going to expensive enough as it is.

 

[used red MN]

That hasn't been settled yet.... have to be something long and skinny to fit next to the air conditioner. One contender is a 5.7 Diesel out of my Cadillac, but I'm torn about losing my air, cuz it won't fit with that giant heater box.... plus have to go automatic, and we're back to the speedometer problem (among other things) since that speed sensor won't fit a Turbo 350.

Another possibility is F5L912 which will fit, since I wouldn't be needing a radiator, and has a bell housing to which the T-5 can readily be adapted.

No, I'm not building a tire burner, was primarily interested in economy. I feel kinda bad not rebuilding the 2.2, that engine really impressed this Ford guy. Dang little bullet-proof push rod motor that did the work of a one-ton for a long time. Gonna keep it, though, under the bench until I find another use for it.

Ford had a Diesel Ranger at one time, but that power train would be hard to find, and expensive. Want to use the engines i have lying around. This process is going to expensive enough as it is.

Interesting, is this a “because I can job?”Otherwise sounds to me like your dropping a $100 to pick up a dollar. Get a different truck. Most times reinventing the wheel is a fail. JMHO

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Doesn't that sum up the majority of the antique tractor hobby though?

How many of us spend 2X the worth of a tractor to finish it? Certainly there are easier and cheaper ways to be in a parade. Then we put them on display at the Fair, where 95% of average fair-goers have no idea what they're looking at in terms of money/ time invested.

Then there's a guy with a 30-60 Mogul, spent 1/4 million on purchase/restoration, on a tractor that can't make a nickle outside of a museum.... and with that bond, he's not likely to sell it at a young enough age to enjoy the money.....

We do it cuz we love it !

 

[Sprint 6]

That hasn't been settled yet.... have to be something long and skinny to fit next to the air conditioner. One contender is a 5.7 Diesel out of my Cadillac, but I'm torn about losing my air, cuz it won't fit with that giant heater box.... plus have to go automatic, and we're back to the speedometer problem (among other things) since that speed sensor won't fit a Turbo 350.

The VSS could be made to work on the Turbo 350 with an large speedo drive (late 70's through 80's) extension housing and Turbo 700/4L60 reluctor and pickup.

That 4 cylinder spec T-5 isn't much of a transmission to put too much torque in front of. And neither is the 7.5" rear end.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

The VSS could be made to work on the Turbo 350 with an large speedo drive (late 70's through 80's) extension housing and Turbo 700 reluctor and pickup.

That 4 cylinder spec T-5 isn't much of a transmission to put too much torque in front of. And neither is the 7.5" rear end.

Interesting about the speedometer adaptation.

The chevy sites (that I'm not a member of, just peeking in) said the T-5 was a good choice for street applications.... how can I tell the difference, and is it possible to upgrade it during overhaul (which it was gonna get anyway). It is not known whether it has brass or fiber syncros, won't know til I get it apart. But it needs a full major, the input shaft is bad anyway.

The rear end is leaving in Phase 2. Friend with junkyard says he has a Toyota dually axle that the springs will fit between.

 

[Sprint 6]

T-5 in a 4 cylinder S10 is pretty low torque capacity, because of the low first gear. The Word Class T-5 that came in 5.0 Mustangs and V8 Camaro/Firebird are better, but the whole transmission is beefier, case and all, not just the internals. But a Word Class T5 will be close ratio and not have a super low 1st.

NV3500 from a V6 S10 or V6/V8 gm 1500 would be a far better choice. But, you would be stuck with a Chevy bellhousing, as it is part of the transmission case. NV3500 also came with a Chrysler A/LA V8 bellhousing, if one was so inclined to get Chevy guys in a huff.

 

[used red MN]

The VSS could be made to work on the Turbo 350 with an large speedo drive (late 70's through 80's) extension housing and Turbo 700/4L60 reluctor and pickup.

That 4 cylinder spec T-5 isn't much of a transmission to put too much torque in front of. And neither is the 7.5" rear end.

I could have told him that, but didn’t want to feed the monkies. Refer to reply 9, but update to drop a $1000 to pickup a dollar. And I had one of them rattlers in a top of the line 1980 Park Avenue Buick in the early 80s, thought it was the shite. Not so much anymore. Bought it used at about 60,000 mi, got a power train warranty. Using oil etc after I drive it about 10k. They put a new GM engine in it updated to the roller cam. Yokel dealer mechanic that put it in twisted the terminal in the glow plug relay when he tightened it not supporting the wire terminals. Third time I drove it with new engine glow plug relay stuck on and burned off glow plug tip in cylinder. In goes 2nd new engine. That one went about 70,000 trouble free miles then popped a head bolt and blew head gasket. Pulled heads ground valves and surfaced, reinstalled with new GM head bolts. Went about 10,000 popped another head bolt and gasket. Pulled heads and checked for flat, good. Put back together with CAT head bolts. Was afraid to drive it much after that and sold it.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

T-5 in a 4 cylinder S10 is pretty low torque capacity, because of the low first gear. The Word Class T-5 that came in 5.0 Mustangs and V8 Camaro/Firebird are better, but the whole transmission is beefier, case and all, not just the internals. But a Word Class T5 will be close ratio and not have a super low 1st.

NV3500 from a V6 S10 or V6/V8 gm 1500 would be a far better choice. But, you would be stuck with a Chevy bellhousing, as it is part of the transmission case. NV3500 also came with a Chrysler A/LA V8 bellhousing, if one was so inclined to get Chevy guys in a huff.

Thank you, much to chew on there.
But was there not a '94 one-ton with an iron case? A friend had bought a flood-totalled truck that the bottom of the case was cracked from filling up with water and freezing. I remember laying under it wondering how we were gonna fix it , and he said it was a NV 3500. Not true?

 

[cjunrau]

Thank you, much to chew on there.
But was there not a '94 one-ton with an iron case? A friend had bought a flood-totalled truck that the bottom of the case was cracked from filling up with water and freezing. I remember laying under it wondering how we were gonna fix it , and he said it was a NV 3500. Not true?

I am not sure if the speedometer is the only thing you are concerned about and if yes why? I would just plug a gps in and use that for a speedometer. That is all I have in my semi.

 

[Sprint 6]

Thank you, much to chew on there.
But was there not a '94 one-ton with an iron case? A friend had bought a flood-totalled truck that the bottom of the case was cracked from filling up with water and freezing. I remember laying under it wondering how we were gonna fix it , and he said it was a NV 3500. Not true?

Cast iron case with an aluminum tail would be a NV4500, which could be spec'd in a heavy 1/2, and was standard 5 speed in 3/4 and 1 ton in the 90's. NV4500 is a heavy beast, but did use a removable bellhousing. Be aware, though, the NV4500 uses a larger than standard bellhousing index, so old bells will work, but have to be opened up. NV4500 in an S10 would require extensive floor mods.

NV3500 with a Chevy V8 would be quickest and easiest using mostly junkyard parts.

I could have told him that, but didn’t want to feed the monkies. Refer to reply 9, but update to drop a $1000 to pickup a dollar. And I had one of them rattlers in a top of the line 1980 Park Avenue Buick in the early 80s, thought it was the shite. Not so much anymore. Bought it used at about 60,000 mi, got a power train warranty. Using oil etc after I drive it about 10k. They put a new GM engine in it updated to the roller cam. Yokel dealer mechanic that put it in twisted the terminal in the glow plug relay when he tightened it not supporting the wire terminals. Third time I drove it with new engine glow plug relay stuck on and burned off glow plug tip in cylinder. In goes 2nd new engine. That one went about 70,000 trouble free miles then popped a head bolt and blew head gasket. Pulled heads ground valves and surfaced, reinstalled with new GM head bolts. Went about 10,000 popped another head bolt and gasket. Pulled heads and checked for flat, good. Put back together with CAT head bolts. Was afraid to drive it much after that and sold it.

Why do you care? His money, his truck, his time. That's all that matters in this situation.

 

[NDIHC]

I'll be the odd one out here. I loved my 82 Cutlass diesel. It was pushing 200k when I sold it and was still running good. I worked on a 5.7 diesel for a customer once. It was in about 2000 or so and he said that was what all of his cars had since they came out in the later 70s. He was an over the road salesman. He said the one I was working on had about 400k miles on it. It had head gaskets replaced once and he had Cat bolts put in when they were done. He said he did that to every one he had and never had another head gasket problem.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I'll be the odd one out here. I loved my 82 Cutlass diesel. It was pushing 200k when I sold it and was still running good. I worked on a 5.7 diesel for a customer once. It was in about 2000 or so and he said that was what all of his cars had since they came out in the later 70s. He was an over the road salesman. He said the one I was working on had about 400k miles on it. It had head gaskets replaced once and he had Cat bolts put in when they were done. He said he did that to every one he had and never had another head gasket problem.

I had a parts salesman like that he put a lot of miles on'em that's all he drove. I thought it was because he use to drive semis as he had diesel in his blood.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I agree. They had a few bugs but in the end they were good runners.

We had one short-blocked in '79 under warranty, and after that the only recurring failure was was those stupid Roosa-Master steel return lines with rubber tees. In '80 they went to non-return injectors which was much better.
GM had a blind spot with that fuel filter though. A horrible idea that I don't think was ever addressed. I'm also disappointed in Delco for the starter. We had an inordinate amount of trouble with those. They were fine as long as they kept turning, but they didn't often do so.