961 Frozen engine

[21kmgre]

I have a frozen engine on a 961 I have had kerosene in it and been taping it almost every day since October and haven't had any luck. I am now thinking about pulling the pistons but I wanted to know if I could pull them with out spliting the tractor to remove the crank.

 

[michford]

Is this a tractor you used a year ago, or is this a tractor that was parked for 30 years outside? Does the tractor roll in neutral? Can you put it in 4th or 5th gear and rock it to try to break the engine free? What are you tapping on to try to unstick it?

 

[pomester]

Yes, you can remove the pistons without removing the crankshaft. In you situation you may find it difficult since rotating the crankshaft to allow the rods a straight shot out the top is part of the technique.

An engine such as you describe needs a complete rebuild. I'd think your best course of action is to remove the engine and get it on a stand or take it to a well equipped shop.

 

[bc]

Have you pulled the head yet? There are other things I'd try before kerosene which probably didn't do much. Get a gallon of evaporust and work the rust around the pistons scraping on it. ATF and WD would work better than kerosene.

I don't know if the 961 engine has removable liners or not. Someone will say. If the liners can be removed then unbolt the rods and try to pull them all out. Probably have to replace the pistons no matter if you have liners or not. If the rust has ate into the side of the cylinder, and it probably has, then it will have to be bored out and hope oversized pistons will still fit. Which means it will have to be split to go to a machine shop.

If it is like any other engine then the flywheel bolts to the crank so it would have to be split to get the flywheel off.

I went through this with my IH C221 engine with no liners. Three came loose, broke the head off of one piston, and the machine shop had to get the other two out. Bored out to a 301 as the rust in the cylinders was too deep for .040 oversized ones. Still putting it back together.

I didn't think about it at the time but I should have tried putting some heat on the pistons, put some wax around the edges, then pour some water or ice cubes in. Thought about putting some burning coal in them. Alternate with putting some heat on the block where the stuck pistons are.

My 2 cents, fwiw.

 

[showcrop]

Sure you can. I am not saying that it will be easy however. You will need to tap from underneath, which is of course tiring. You will need to have some wooden blocks to place against the bottom end of the rods. If you are a wood worker you could cut long pieces of wood to go up into the pistons to tap against. Before undertaking this method I would get a little more aggressive with your current method by adding some acetone to the fuel oil, and after two days jack and block up one rear wheel and in 1st gear bump the engine with the wheel a couple times in each direction. The weight of the wheel gives you some force.

 

[diesel fumes]

atf/ acetone mix ratio of 50:50 makes for a very good penetrant

 

[ErnieD]

I have witnessed dry ice/alcohol mix in the cylinder to shrink piston. This was in a Packard/PT boat engine. Pistons did come out but were junk. At some point it becomes less trouble and expense to break out pistons and replace the sleeves.

 

[showcrop]

901s generally did not have sleeves. I say generally because I believe that the earliest 901s did have them. Sleeve presence is in with the serial number in the form of a diamond before and after.

 

[pomester]

I've got two 901's, both have sleeves - I read somewhere that the sleeveless engines started with the 4000 models (4 cylinder).

 

[showcrop]

(quoted from post at 12:50:28 04/03/21) I've got two 901's, both have sleeves - I read somewhere that the sleeveless engines started with the 4000 models (4 cylinder).

I have a '57 960 with sleeves, and had a '61 901 without.

 

[21kmgre]

Yes I have the head removed. Also it is a sleeved engine. also it is frozen is because it's an outside for about 10 years without a cap on the exhaust. also thanks to everyone who suggested the acetone mix I will definitely try that

 

[Ford9000puller]

Thats not the case showcrop. The diamond are used on
sleeveless tractors too. They are there to mark the beginning
and end of the serial number. It wasnt until the late 01 series
that the sleeveless block appeared. The quickest way to tell is
if has a canister oil filter or an adapter to a spin on it should
have sleeves. If it is a casted boss for a spin on oil filter than it
is sleeveless.

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 08:50:32 04/05/21) Thats not the case showcrop. The diamond are used on
sleeveless tractors too. They are there to mark the beginning
and end of the serial number. It wasnt until the late 01 series
that the sleeveless block appeared. The quickest way to tell is
if has a canister oil filter or an adapter to a spin on it should
have sleeves. If it is a casted boss for a spin on oil filter than it
is sleeveless.

That only applies to whether it had sleeves when it left the factory, and even some of the ones made during the sleeveless times had sleeves if there was an imperfection in the bore, as they would over bore and sleeve one rather than throw it away.

 

[Ford9000puller]

If you want to get real technical yes some sleeveless blocks could have sleeves but they probably would be bore to fit repair sleeves and not the original removable ones found in the sleeved motors. And I doubt there are many that way out there. My statement was a general statement that it is easy to tell what it should be by the oil filter

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 15:07:10 04/05/21) If you want to get real technical yes some sleeveless blocks could have sleeves but they probably would be bore to fit repair sleeves and not the original removable ones found in the sleeved motors. And I doubt there are many that way out there. My statement was a general statement that it is easy to tell what it should be by the oil filter

Another point I was trying to make is that many that were originally sleeveless have been bored and sleeved in the 40+ years that those tractors have been used and abused.

 

[Ford9000puller]

I have not heard of any being bored and sleeved to use the
original sleeves with the lip on top that you can drive out and
back in. The kind that you leave a lip on the bottom and press
in and then re bore to the correct size yes maybe but even
then in my opinion that wouldnt be a sleeved motor that you
could overhaul at home ive had that done to several 256/268
motors to fix the pin hole in the cylinder wall issue they are
know no have and had to do my 4200 gas that way because it
was already .030 over bore and wore bad when I bought it.
Had it machine sleeved back to std. . You would have to take
it to a machine shop and have those sleeves bored oversize
just like a normal sleeveless engine.