9n generator cutout

[earnman]

recently new battery and new gen cut out cannot seem to get gen to turn on unless i excite it manually then charges fine?? till i shut tractor off then restart does not excite itself .. what am i doing wrong . this is a by serial n0. a 1946 has a 3 brush single wire generatorit can put out 8.2 volts when full field it. but will not pick up byitself?

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 14:18:46 07/16/22) recently new battery and new gen cut out cannot seem to get gen to turn on unless i excite it manually then charges fine?? till i shut tractor off then restart does not excite itself .. what am i doing wrong . this is a by serial n0. a 1946 has a 3 brush single wire generatorit can put out 8.2 volts when full field it. but will not pick up byitself?

Bad cutout?

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 17:18:46 07/16/22) recently new battery and new gen cut out cannot seem to get gen to turn on unless i excite it manually then charges fine?? till i shut tractor off then restart does not excite itself .. what am i doing wrong . this is a by serial n0. a 1946 has a 3 brush single wire generatorit can put out 8.2 volts when full field it. but will not pick up byitself?

am very familiar with your system, but not your terminology. How are you "exciting" the one wire generator? How do you "full field a one wire generator"?

 

[earnman]

i jump across cut out momentary and it charges

 

[earnman]

cut out brand new

 

[JMOR]

When you jumper across the cut out, all you are doing is the same as if you took the cover off of it & pushed the contacts closed with your finger. Doesn't matter if it is new, as there are many, many reports of "new" chinee junk cutouts & voltage regulators. If it were mine, I would replace the cut out with appropriate diode (voltage & current rating).

 

[earnman]

well i bought it from a ford tractor dealer?? i guess that dosent matter

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 08:14:18 07/17/22) well i bought it from a ford tractor dealer?? i guess that dosent matter

lease tell us the dealer outcome, even if it is, "let me sell you a new tractor".

 

[earnman]

so what cut out do you recommend?

 

[John Deere D]

My 2-N.......
Cut-out purchased from Yesterdays Tractors.......
Tractor has ORIGINAL 6 Volt Generator...
100% satisfied.........

Bob......

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 20:41:17 07/17/22) so what cut out do you recommend?

f you can get a good one, as John Deere D, then that is the way to go. But if you can only find bad units, do the diode replacement.

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 05:21:52 07/18/22)

(quoted from post at 20:41:17 07/17/22) so what cut out do you recommend?

f you can get a good one, as John Deere D, then that is the way to go. But if you can only find bad units, do the diode replacement.

@JMOR,

Do you still know of a source/details for the bridged diode to install inside the cutout? I had the information years ago but never got around to getting the parts. Radio Shack I miss.....

There is also a company that makes a "cutout" that is actually a regulator for 3-brush gennys. They are old Ford car people. I forget the name/company? They are/were ~$80

 

[earnman]

thats exactly what i have

 

[earnman]

yes if i had part numbers or place to get parts. would be great thx

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 08:02:10 07/18/22) yes if i had part numbers or place to get parts. would be great thx

I just found these online DIY diode for cutout, $3 U$D

I have several dead cutouts, I'll give it a try, and take one for the team......will report back

https://www.macsautoparts.com/model-a-ford-generator-cut-out-diode-kit-for-converting-old-style-cut-out-to-solid-state-positive-ground-28-20657-1.html#tab-label-details_tab-title

This post was edited by Mad Farmer on 07/18/2022 at 09:15 am.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 11:02:10 07/18/22) yes if i had part numbers or place to get parts. would be great thx

very semiconductor outfit make something equivalent or close.
https://www.amazon.com/diode-bridge/s?k=diode+bridge

There is even a used one for 98 cents on Amazon

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 12:11:25 07/18/22)

(quoted from post at 08:02:10 07/18/22) yes if i had part numbers or place to get parts. would be great thx

I just found these online DIY diode for cutout, $3 U$D

I have several dead cutouts, I'll give it a try, and take one for the team......will report back

https://www.macsautoparts.com/model-a-ford-generator-cut-out-diode-kit-for-converting-old-style-cut-out-to-solid-state-positive-ground-28-20657-1.html#tab-label-details_tab-title

This post was edited by Mad Farmer on 07/18/2022 at 09:15 am.

ooks like too much work to me.

 

[R Geiger]

On my John Deere MC, when the cutout failed I just installed a switch and a light to remind me to turn it off. Works good.

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 09:24:16 07/18/22)

(quoted from post at 12:11:25 07/18/22)

(quoted from post at 08:02:10 07/18/22) yes if i had part numbers or place to get parts. would be great thx

I just found these online DIY diode for cutout, $3 U$D

I have several dead cutouts, I'll give it a try, and take one for the team......will report back

https://www.macsautoparts.com/model-a-ford-generator-cut-out-diode-kit-for-converting-old-style-cut-out-to-solid-state-positive-ground-28-20657-1.html#tab-label-details_tab-title

This post was edited by Mad Farmer on 07/18/2022 at 09:15 am.

ooks like too much work to me.

Less work than the radio shack fix you posted

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 14:30:50 07/18/22)

(quoted from post at 09:24:16 07/18/22)

(quoted from post at 12:11:25 07/18/22)

(quoted from post at 08:02:10 07/18/22) yes if i had part numbers or place to get parts. would be great thx

I just found these online DIY diode for cutout, $3 U$D

I have several dead cutouts, I'll give it a try, and take one for the team......will report back

https://www.macsautoparts.com/model-a-ford-generator-cut-out-diode-kit-for-converting-old-style-cut-out-to-solid-state-positive-ground-28-20657-1.html#tab-label-details_tab-title

This post was edited by Mad Farmer on 07/18/2022 at 09:15 am.

ooks like too much work to me.

Less work than the radio shack fix you posted

uit yourself, do whatever you want. I only cut and solder. No need to drill, press and then solder. And what was that about cad plating!

 

[Mad Farmer]

(quoted from post at 10:05:58 07/18/22) On my John Deere MC, when the cutout failed I just installed a switch and a light to remind me to turn it off. Works good.

I like the light idea as a reminder.

I've made a jumper with alligator clips, and tied/hung that with a string near the cutout when one went bad, and I needed the N to run/charge.

Just like your switch, you have to remember to make connection [i:64b0e0cb63]after[/i:64b0e0cb63] started, and disconnect [i:64b0e0cb63]before[/i:64b0e0cb63] you shut down.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Does the tractor run now? What does the AMMETER show when it runs at idle? Using a 6V or 12V setup? Forget any serial number, means relatively nothing unless an early 1939 model. ALL 9N & 2Ns were the same electrical systems from s/n 12500 in 1940 til end of 2N production in 1946. Many engine blocks were swapped out so worry about the important things like 6V/12V; GEN or ALT; having proper fan belt tension; and the front mount dizzy set and timed correctly. Invest in good a quality battery to start with (pun intended). After s/n 9N-12500 the 9N-B GEN now used the roundcan cutout circuit and used up til the end. The GEN was a 1-Wire/3-Brush, 'A' Circuit unit with max output at 11.5 AMPS. How did you get 8.2V and where did you test at? The 2N-10000 Unit introduced the fan belt tensioning bracket as stander equipment. A kit was offered for the previous 9N-C unit as well. The 9N-A and 9N-B units had no belt tensioning other than relying on the pivot mount bolt. Without proper belt tension, you will never charge the battery. You can motor test your GEN yourself or take to a local shop. He can test and rebuild if needed. Use your OEM parts all the time - they were designed to be rebuilt over and over. Use the newer solid state diode cutout for best results. Correct wiring thru entire system is essential - use OEM Manuals as your roadmap. Polarize GEN after all else is correct ---but that isn't the root cause of your problems.

FORD 9N/2N TRACTOR WIRING DIAGRAMS:

FORD 9N-10505-B CUTOUT USED AFTER S/N 12,500 TO S/N 258504:

FORD TRACTOR 2N-10000 GENERATOR w/BELT TENSIONER:

FORD TRACTOR 9N-10000-C GENERATOR w/ BELT TENSIONER KIT:

FORD TRACTOR 9N-10505-B CUTOUT CIRCUIT TEST:

FORD 9N/2N TRACTOR WIRING PICTOGRAMS by JMOR:

Tim Daley(MI)
UPDATED CUTOUT CIRCUIT
​

 

[earnman]

yep i got all that can style cut out. spring tension on generator its a 6v original system all wiring is as it should be. i get about 11 to 15 amps on amp gauge battery is a week old. i got 8.2 volts by jumping across the cut out and left jumper on to see max voltage. tractor runs great. i would like to get diode style cut out but cannot find it. i take jumper wire off it stays charging until i shut tractor off. but i restart tractor it will not pick charge byitself?? i bought the cut out from a ford tractor dealer..

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 08:57:45 07/19/22) yep i got all that can style cut out. spring tension on generator its a 6v original system all wiring is as it should be. i get about 11 to 15 amps on amp gauge battery is a week old. i got 8.2 volts by jumping across the cut out and left jumper on to see max voltage. tractor runs great. i would like to get diode style cut out but cannot find it. i take jumper wire off it stays charging until i shut tractor off. but i restart tractor it will not pick charge byitself?? i bought the cut out from a ford tractor dealer..

do not know of anyone sell the diode type already assembled. You have to cut up an old unit and solder the diode in place yourself. Or just find a place to mount a diode..........and dispense with the cut out can, unless you want to hide diode & look stock.

This post was edited by JMOR on 07/19/2022 at 11:53 am.

 

[earnman]

how heavy a diode? i have a couple

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 20:51:32 07/19/22) how heavy a diode? i have a couple

can look it up later, but I believe these generators were able to do 10-12 amperes. Many people have used 25A diodes , giving plenty of safety margin.

 

[Den N Ms]

Here is a couple
https://cwmoss.com/products/generator-cut-out-diode-version

https://thirdgenauto.com/product/1928-39-ford-replacement-generator-cut-out-w-diode-installed/

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 06:38:21 07/20/22)
Here is a couple
https://cwmoss.com/products/generator-cut-out-diode-version

https://thirdgenauto.com/product/1928-39-ford-replacement-generator-cut-out-w-diode-installed/

was not aware of those, ,but $50-60 for a 99 cent diode is a lot to pay for convenience....for me, but maybe not for everybody.

 

[earnman]

thanks will look for diode i think one i have is 15 amp

 

[JMOR]

Hey, I didn't do too bad in 'remembering', it is actually an 11.5 amp generator. Diode drop will be in range of 0.7 to 1 volt and if we use 1v X 11.5 amp = 11.5 Watts or about the heat of 1/6 th of a 60W lamp.

 

[earnman]

well tried the diode .... did not work i know how diodes work i worked on SCR systems.. so back to square one will not start to charge by itself unless i jump cut out for
a second... 3 different cut outs????

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:54:03 07/21/22) well tried the diode .... did not work i know how diodes work i worked on SCR systems.. so back to square one will not start to charge by itself unless i jump cut out for
a second... 3 different cut outs????

as diode still good and conducting in one direction and not the other AFTER your trial? And would it act same with diode as with cut out, i.e., start charging after momentary jumpering?

 

[earnman]

that was my hoping thought but...bunch trials... done both ways.... done here going to hook up a momentary switch to get charge starting need to use tractor

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 20:11:22 07/21/22) that was my hoping thought but...bunch trials... done both ways.... done here going to hook up a momentary switch to get charge starting need to use tractor

ometimes a man has to do what he's gotta do. Best to ya!

 

[earnman]

just dont understand why it will not pick up by itself .. putting in momentary switch tomorrow

 

[wore out]

(quoted from post at 20:21:43 07/21/22) just dont understand why it will not pick up by itself .. putting in momentary switch tomorrow

There is something not quite right with your generator, a short between a couple of windings in a field coil, a shorted armature winding, conductive dirt in the slots between commutator segments, a bad solder joint at a commutator segment are all possibilities.

At startup, the tiny amount of residual magnetism in the field polepieces gets charging started, which then begins to send current into the field coils and charging begins in earnest.

If there is any of the above issues and possibly others the tiny amount of current from the residual magnetism isn't enough to magnetize the fields and start the charging process.

Also, if the field coils have ever been removed, if the pole pieces were not installed properly, with no debris between them and the generator''frame'' and damned TIGHT that could be a contributing issue.

When you manually jumper battery power into the generator the fields get enough current to magnetize them and charging works until you shut if off and the no-charge cycle repeats.

Do you happen to have access to a ''growler'' to test the armature, that's what I'd do first.

 

[earnman]

no i dont.. its original gen. never been apart.. i am using tractor now when i get time i will take apart this gen does not have brush inspection cover