9n no spark

Standing Elk

New User
Was plowing snow, everything was good and the ol 9n just quit. Like you turned off the key. I have replaced the coil, points, and the condencer. I checked and have 6 volts from the switch to the coil. With all the new parts I still have no spark. What the heck did I miss?
 
" What the heck did I miss?"

In a word, troubleshooting.

You just assumed it was a spark issue & started replacing parts. It might be spark.....but it could be fuel.



It takes three things for an engine to run: spark at the right time, compression, & fuel in the right mixture. For the moment, forget about compression & concentrate on narrowing the problem down to spark or fuel.

There are three very important tools you always need to have in your N tool box: a 3 inch piece of wire w/ alligator clips on each end, an old spark plug w/ the gap opened to at least 3/16” ( ¼” is better) and a 7/16 box end wrench. (see tip # 50 at the link below) And, you really do need a working ammeter on the tractor; it is a very important diagnostic tool. With these tools, you can quickly narrow down most N problems to spark or fuel.

First, check for fuel. Get a can & put it under the carb. Remove the bolt in the bottom of the carb; as long as the fuel is turned on, you should see gas flowing out of the carb. Let it run for at least 30 seconds. If it’s a dribble, or runs for 5 seconds & stops, or none at all, you have solved half the problem: it’s fuel related. If gas flows well out of the carb & only stops when you turn it off at the sediment bowl, chances are very good it’s not a fuel problem. So, next, turn the key on, crank the engine & look at the ammeter. What is the needle doing? Does it show a constant discharge, no movement at all, or does it move back & forth slightly? Next, get the old plug, ground it to a rust & paint free spot on the engine, turn the key on & crank the engine. If the spark jumps the 3/16” gap, you probably don’t have a spark problem. If it won’t jump the 3/16” gap, you have a spark problem. If the ammeter needle shows a constant discharge, or doesn’t move at all, that also tells you that you have a spark problem. Means you have 6v at the coil and no spark, the problem is in the distributor.

Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok, & that you have correct voltage to the coil, the most common electrical failure (no spark, weak spark) points on the frontmount are:

1. The insulator under the brass concave head screw.

2. The insulator at the end of the points where the copper strip attaches.

3. The copper strip is broken or grounded to the plate.

4. The condenser wire grounding.

5. The pigtail/tab not making contact.

6. Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground.

7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor due to a loose bail or no gasket; the coil must not move at all.

8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket.

9. Dirty/corroded/incorrectly gapped points

10. Burned rotor, cracked/carbon tracked cap.

Unless the coil is cracked or shows a dead short, chances are it's fine; square coils rarely fail cold. Pull the distributor & do a continuity check.

Plowing snow in w/ a frontmount w/ bad gaskets is never a good idea.

First, make sure your meter/light works (don't ask....)

Next, dress the points by running a piece of card stock or brown paper bag through them. New points sometimes have an anti-corrosive dielectric coating on them & old points can corrode or pick up grease from a dirty feeler gauge or excessive cam lubricant. Then, check the gap at .015 on all 4 lobes.

Now, follow these steps:

1. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other on both sides of the open points. On the side closest to the cam, you should have continuity. Not on the other side! If you do, you will also have continuity everywhere because the points are grounded.

2. Coil off, cap off, points open. One probe on the brass screw & the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity! Now, rotate the tang on the distributor....as the points open & close, you have continuity (closed) and lose it when they open.

3. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other on the cam side of the open points. You should have continuity!

4. Coil on, cap off, points open. One probe on the lead on the top of the coil, the other anywhere on the body of the distributor. You should have no continuity!

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit. The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil mis-aligned trying to put it back together one piece at a time & the result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.

It's possible to put it back on wrong & break it. Look at the slot on the end of the cam shaft. What ever angle it happens to be, turn the distributor tang to match it. Make sure you can tell the wide side from the narrow side on both the cam & distributor! (close counts) Then place the distributor on the front of the engine, gently push it in place & slowly turn the distributor body until you feel the tang slip into the slot. Rotate the distributor body until the bolt holes line up. Then, hand tighten the two bolts until the distributor body is flush w/ the timing gear cover.

Finally, double check your firing order & plug wires. It’s 1-2-4-3, counterclockwise. It’s very easy to cross 3 & 4.






If it does not have gas coming out of the carb at a steady stream w/ the bolt out for at least 30 seconds, you have a fuel problem. First, remove the gas cap. Your vent could be clogged & it vacuum locked. If that doesn’t work, tap the carb bowl w/ a hammer handle in case the float is sticking closed. (don’t whack it w/ the head of the hammer; you can crack the bowl). If you still don’t see gas flowing, the N has three fuel screens; one in the brass elbow, one in the top of the sediment bowl & one on the stem of the sediment bowl in the gas tank. Check the screen in the elbow & the screen in the top of the sediment bowl. (don’t worry about the one in the tank) Both probably need to be cleaned. If you have the fuel knob turned on all the way, & 1 gallon or less in the tank, it may be trying to feed off of the reserve inlet which is probably clogged. Only open it 2 full turns. Put at least 2 gallons in the tank. (and do not forget to turn the gas off; see tip # 9)

There are ways to check for spark & fuel that work & ways that don't. For example, having gas to the carb is nice, but having it past the float is what counts! That’s why removing the 7/16” bolt in the bottom of the carb is the way to check for fuel. And, same thing w/ spark at the plugs. Some folks think that checking for spark means pulling a plug wire off & looking for one. Well, it's the distance the spark jumps at the plug that gives you the info you want. It takes about 17kv to jump a 3/16" gap & 22kv to jump ¼” in the open air. Remember, it’s 14psi outside of the engine & about 90psi at a 6:1 compression ratio in the cylinders & compressed air creates electrical resistance, so you really need the 17-22kv to fire the plugs when the engine is running. A store bought plug checker will work better than an old plug because it won’t shock the snot out of you like an old plug might!


Post back w/ results & any other questions.
50 Tips
 
When it just quits, like you turned off the key it's most likely sparks. But like Bruce says, if you don't want to be frustrated, figure out whether its fuel or spark. Front mount dist are vulnerable to getting water in the dist while working in snow, esp if you don't have all the dist gaskets and dust cover. Go back and check spark like Bruce suggests. If you don't have spark remove the dist and check for continuity thru the dist with the points closed and no continuity thru the dist with the points open.
 
First thing I would do is to spray a good long shot of starting fluid into the air intake on top of the air cleaner. If it starts with that it's fuel problem and not ignition.

It is got wet from snow melting around the distributor or wires etc. you can spray everything outside the distributor and the plugs and wires with WD 40 and that will eleminate any moisture outside the distributor etc. I've done it many times in damp weather on some of my old dirty ignition parts and believe it or not it works. I had a man helping me log once when my old 55 F600 truck wouuldn't kit a lick one cold damp morning and he suggested the WD 40 trick. I thought this has got to be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard but what the heck what can it hurt to try it and sure enough got back in the truck after the treatment and it started right up and never skipped a lick. That was over 20 years ago and it still works on that truck and others.

Zane
 
(quoted from post at 18:36:08 01/23/12) Was plowing snow, everything was good and the ol 9n just quit. Like you turned off the key. I have replaced the coil, points, and the condencer. I checked and have 6 volts from the switch to the coil. With all the new parts I still have no spark. What the heck did I miss?

standing elk, like Bruce said it could be spark or fuel, my 9n has stopped several times like that. If it had fire at the coil it was the points that slipped or rubbing block worn out. If it didn't have spark at coil it was broken or loose wires around the resistor block or switch.

Zane said something about moisture, I use CRC5-56 you can use it inside the dizzy cap to dry the moisture. In 68 I bought a 56 plymouth, If it was cloudy, I had to spray it down with CRC before it would start, even after replacing dizzy cap and tune up.

trouttman
 
watch the ammeter when the engine is cranking.Needle should flick back and forth to 4 amps discharge.If it goes to 4a and stays there the point have slipped closed or theres a short circuit in the distributor.No discharge says your switch is bad or you havent turned it on or points are not making contact.No need for test lights or meters.You just spent a lot of money for parts you didnt need.
 
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