9N running and just quit

[FiremanKyle]

Got a 41' 9N 12V, recently converted Electronic Ignition. I had some issues prior to EI conversion, so figured why not. Tractor had good spark, so pulled it out of the garage running after it ran for a couple minutes, it just stopped (pushed it back in). I am not seeing spark anymore, the coil was replaced when EI converted as part of the pertronix conversion need, think the coil measures at 2.5 Ohms. What should I check next - granted I'd rather do this when it's warmer out, but oh well. Thought maybe I could clear the little snow (MI) I have, and now getting a cold front in for like a week plus.

 

[Joe.S.AK]

FiremanKyle,

I would first check the new coil to make sure that you have power going [u:b5f88c6b32]to[/u:b5f88c6b32] it (a simple 12v test light from coil top to ground).

Next, pull the coil and check to make sure, with a test meter, that it hasn't burned out.

If OK so far, make sure that your new (12 v ?) coil is making good contacts at both the probe/spring and bent plate contact points. If arcing/pitting is evident at the plate contact, clean off pitting, slightly straighten the bent contact plate to make good contact and put a little bit of di-electric grease on the contact spots.

You might have read here on the forum where the exact thing happened to my '40 9N --- and I finally got tired of second guessing old, "[i:b5f88c6b32]sacred[/i:b5f88c6b32]", WW II technology and just went with a Pertronix 1247 conversion --- for just the points. Wrong - I should have just finished the job right then and there with a round coil, too.

And so, 7 or 8 months later, since I had previously changed the points for a 12 V, Neg ground, electronic ignition and didn't need the "100% full" Pertronix 1247FX kit I choose to go with a round coil partial kit upgrade. Not much money but a lot of reliability on a working tractor and not a manicured restoration.

Instead of messing around with some home made work-around (I just don't have the time and workshop equipment any more) I just ordered the "1247FX CONN" kit which simply omits the 1247 igniter from the round coil "1247 FX, Conversion Kit".

The CONN kit seems to be in short supply right now - but I suspect that all a distributor would have to do [i:b5f88c6b32]to make the sale[/i:b5f88c6b32] is pull the igniter from a full kit and sell it as the CONN kit. Pertronix seems to choose to only deal through distributors (for me it was Summit) and not deal direct.

One advantage to the round coil finish-up is that all the resistors are not needed any more and can be removed. (disregard the reference to 3 Ohm resistor on page 1 of the 1247FX CONN instructions - it is an old reference to the square coil and is a typo.)

Whichever way you go be sure to let us know how it all came out.

- Joe -

 

[Den N Ms]

FiremanKyle,Are you sure ordered and installed and got the correct 12 volt kit. And not a 6 volt kit by mistake that the module burned up after running for 2 minutes.Check the module part number it should be 1247XT or 1247, 1247XTO and not a 1247P6 or1247N6.

You could put your points back in to get your snow moved if needed till you get parts.

 

[Bruce(VA)]

Did you replace the OEM plug wires with suppression wires as Pertronix recommends?
75 Tips

 

[a32vickyhotrod]

(quoted from post at 07:15:28 02/07/21) Did you replace the OEM plug wires with suppression wires as Pertronix recommends?
75 Tips

Bruce, Any idea why the kind of plug wires are an important part of a switch to the electronic system?
I can see why a 3 OHM coil is what the module wants to switch, but I don't get the plug wire thing.
Then again what about resister spark plugs in the mix?

 

[Bruce(VA)]

The Pertronix module is especially susceptible to EMI produced by the old copper wires and will burn up in short order. As I discovered on a 1950 MG.
https://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm
75 Tips

 

[a32vickyhotrod]

(quoted from post at 08:14:07 02/07/21) The Pertronix module is especially susceptible to EMI produced by the old copper wires and will burn up in short order. As I discovered on a 1950 MG.
https://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/truth.htm
75 Tips

Bruce, Thanks, good article to explain it.

 

[FiremanKyle]

Ohh definitely changed the plug wires over, I had one replaced prior (#2), replaced the remainder of them with this conversion. The Plug wire upgrades are more sealed where the old ones you could see the cap end, now there is a boot over the plug.

 

[FiremanKyle]

I purchased this from Steiner (1/2 hour drive one way) as a 12V kit, in the the book it noted I would need a 12V Coil. My Pertronix on the box
indicates 1247 (no other letters), Coil box p/n has the same p/n as the book for 12V.

I don't have enough snow accumulations to worry about going back yet, plus the EI conversion I had to feed a wire back up from the inside pf the
distributor inside all the way back to the ballast resistor block key side (no easy disconnect plugs). If I have a snow dumping I could get my
snowblower from my parents or just shovel the 100' or so.

 

[Eman85]

Do you have power to the coil?

 

[FiremanKyle]

How do I test the coil for burn out? There is 2.3 Ohms from top post to the spring.
I don't think I have a test light, but checked the coil voltage, it was like 0.2V in place, removed the coil and have 12.6V, there is 13.6 at the
battery (trickle charger is on). It seems to me that when placing the coil on the distributor there is a process I am not aware of - rocking from the
back or the front, so the spring does not interfere with the retaining ring inside the distributor.

Do you have knowledge on the ballast resistor in what I should have? I see there are different sizes for 12V applications.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 12:54:24 02/07/21) How do I test the coil for burn out? There is 2.3 Ohms from top post to the spring.
I don't think I have a test light, but checked the coil voltage, it was like 0.2V in place, removed the coil and have 12.6V, there is 13.6 at the
battery (trickle charger is on). It seems to me that when placing the coil on the distributor there is a process I am not aware of - rocking from the
back or the front, so the spring does not interfere with the retaining ring inside the distributor.

Do you have knowledge on the ballast resistor in what I should have? I see there are different sizes for 12V applications.

If you did a good measurement, 0.2 v from top of coil to ground it too small. Verify voltage drop as you measure voltage, moving from coil back toward battery. When you find big change, you will have found a bad connection, switch, etc.

 

[Jim L WA]

You have .2 volts at the coil, then when you remove the coil you have 12.6 "there" I'm guess the wire that goes to the coil? It sounds like something is shorted to ground. Like one of the others said, try going back to points, if you still have them and a condenser.

 

[FiremanKyle]

(quoted from post at 18:49:48 02/07/21) You have .2 volts at the coil, then when you remove the coil you have 12.6 "there" I'm guess the wire that goes to the coil? It sounds like something is shorted to ground. Like one of the others said, try going back to points, if you still have them and a condenser.

When the coil was removed, all wiring is still connected back towards the battery (coil unlatched/loose). It seems the spring wire could be grounding out, when the coil is paced on there.

 

[wore out]

(quoted from post at 12:12:34 02/07/21)

(quoted from post at 18:49:48 02/07/21) You have .2 volts at the coil, then when you remove the coil you have 12.6 "there" I'm guess the wire that goes to the coil? It sounds like something is shorted to ground. Like one of the others said, try going back to points, if you still have them and a condenser.

When the coil was removed, all wiring is still connected back towards the battery (coil unlatched/loose). It seems the spring wire could be grounding out, when the coil is paced on there.

"checked the coil voltage, it was like 0.2V in place"

Even if the little curly springy thing under the coil is shorted to ground it is the same thing as if breaker points were closed (and nearly the same as if your miserable EI is triggered "ON"), there should battery voltage present at the top coil terminal if NO resistor in the primary circuit, roughly half to three quarters battery voltage if no resistor in the primary circuit.

As another reply said go backwards from the coil to the ignition switch to the starter switch (including checking at both terminals of the resistor, IF present) checking the Volts as you go.

At some point you will note the voltage is now battery voltage vs. 0.2 Volts. The problem is at that point in the wiring.

 

[FiremanKyle]

Power when removed, when I set it into place it acts like it is grounding out.

 

[wore out]

(quoted from post at 18:29:41 02/07/21)
Power when removed, when I set it into place it acts like it is grounding out.

Two of use have suggested "go backwards from the coil to the ignition switch to the starter switch (including checking at both terminals of the resistor, IF present) checking the Volts as you go.

At some point you will note the voltage is now battery voltage vs. 0.2 Volts. The problem is at that point in the wiring."

Have you done that check?

If your voltage reading of .2 Volts at top terminal of the coil is correct and the "battery side" of the ignition switch in fact has nominal battery voltage of around 12.5 Volts either there's a really poor connection somewhere between there and the coil or something has to be getting VERY hot due to a short!

 

[FiremanKyle]

My ballast resistor is deteriorated (it fell and a piece of the ceramic cracked), I'm going to replace it. What size do I need - 1.6 ohms cold?
Wiring was replaced when it was converted from 6V to 12V, so about the only thing left is the key switch and the ammeter. I know the connections on the ammeter show some corrosion, suppose as it would, since it was stored outside, with some MI humidity.
Temps are single digits (F) so this may be slow motion to get out to the garage, with a salamander only take the chill off.

 

[Bruce(VA)]

See tip # 30.

Use a 12v coil and all you need is the oem ballast resistor.
75 Tips

 

[FiremanKyle]

Is that a 1.6 ohm rating?

 

[FiremanKyle]

The wireing is newer (maybe 10 years or so), so not much deterioration.
However It appears the wiring for the headlight switch came disconnected.
The wiring set used has a push in male connectors similar to the spark plug end, verses a crimp style (female on the switch side). Since both ends were free, I assume this grounded out with the tractor quitting. I pushed them back into place, however I need to redo this connection later to fool proof it.

I did check the ammeter, with one lead disconnected getting 0.2 ohms (from recollection, I did disconnect the headlights, there are no tail lights yet (wiring this up is a later want to).

 

[Bruce(VA)]

No, the oem ballast resistor is .3 ohms cold, 1.7 ohms hot.

That's all you need w/ a 12v front coil.

See tip # 30.
75 Tips

 

[JMOR]

Sometimes, I know that I should simply read & not respond, but.................I have passed over this phrase so many times that here I am, not resisting anymore.
"9N running and just quit".....really? Isn't that ALWAYS the case?

 

[FiremanKyle]

True - like need more money to pay bills...

 

[FiremanKyle]

I read that tip (more than once) for the value. Thank you!!
Guess I better get a different one, I'm too high, cold I'm 1.6.

 

[FiremanKyle]

I was looking still and the headlight switch wires keep separating, I removed them and taped them up., since it was loose.
The 12V coil spring was angled slightly to the rear, I took my pliers to have it centered, after the slight adjustment to the spring, Spark was good, tractor ran great, even plowed the driveway a little bit! I need to adjust the carb for maximum efficiency.
Regarding the headlight wires, are there replacements available someplace for the pieces that are like 6 inches long. This was rewired when it was converted from 6V to 12V. I have a picture of it in this thread of the connector from the tractor side.

Thanks everyone for your help!