9N starter issues

[Chunkin' Lead]

So I just bought a 9 N. My first tractor. Started fine ran even better, loaded it up and away I went. Replaced the battery (tractor supply 26C), replaced the solenoid and ignition switch with parts identical to what was existing. Now after a few attempts to start her up, (it was 37 degrees here this morning) I have a dead battery, and old started i am not sure if it is fried and a new starter I am certain is fried. I can return the new starter, i just bought it today. My problem is that i have no freaking clue what is wrong to keep trashing starters. Can anyone give any insight??? My first inclination is that the battery is too powerful but i watched the guy i bought it from start the tractor off of a truck battery.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Are you sure it's a 9N? I ask because 9N's don't have solenoids. Yours could if someone added it.

Next, how do you know " a new starter I am certain is fried."

What's it doing? Nothing? If so, you probably just killed the battery.

First, ID the tractor: http://www.oldfordtractors.com/idhistory.htm

Next, tell us if the tractor is 6v or 12v (a TSC part number doesn't help)

Next, see tip # 60 to charge the battery.

Then, see tip # 43 to safely jump it w/ a 12v battery.

And lastly...for future reference....buy shirts & chicken feed at TSC, not tractor parts. Get parts here or at nnalert's.

Post back w/ more info & we can help you get it running.
75 Tips

 

[old]

As Bruce says 9N did not have a solenoid. Ya it may have one added to it. Things like 6 or 12 volts helps us help you. Try a jumper from the battery right to the starter stud. Be sure it is out of gear and see if it spins over. If it does then you have a problem from there back to the battery which could be as simple as bad connections

 

[Royse]

Adding to what the other guys have said, don't throw your starter
out just yet. The starter drive gear on these tractors sometimes
gets stuck in the flywheel. When that happens they often won't do
anything. This happens more frequently with a low battery.

To free them you can try putting it in high gear and rocking it
back and forth with the rear tire hard enough to turn the engine.
Another option is to loosen the starter bolts and pull the starter
back to have a look.

 

[Tom N MS]

shirts and chicken feed--good advice

 

[greywolf224]

(quoted from post at 20:49:49 02/17/15) shirts and chicken feed--good advice

And....I buy my Carhartt's there! :roll:

 

[Tom N MS]

That is acceptable

 

[Chunkin' Lead]

brushes on the new starter disentigrated while pretty shiny dust flew all over the crank case and the wires to the brushes are grounding out. It also let all of its smoke out. fried or not it is going back. It is 12 volt and I am also certain the solenoid is aftermarket as it matches that of an older model ford pickup. I still have the original starter which I plan to have redone. I will not buy another part, especially electric, from TSC. The battery was on charge the entire night before in anticipation of the cold weather so I am sure it was fully charged. Oh, and the first 2 characters on the "driver side" of the engine is 9N. So I am pretty certain it is in fact a 9N. Unless my common sense completely escapes me. I may have not been specific enough in my original post, I am trying to find out why my starters are letting their smoke out. The battery I have on it is 600 CCA. 525 in cold weather. It did not smoke when the previous solenoid had to be jumped with a large pair of channel locks and it ran fine. the key start did not work so I started replacing the listed items, in my ignorance, thinking they were OEM parts. I have also already replaced all of the battery cables and ensured tight connections.

 

[Royse]

Some pictures of what you have might help, but from the sounds
it is a 9N or 2N (or an 8N with a 9N or 2N engine) that someone
has rewired to fit there own desires. 2N engine serial numbers
started with "9N" also, but it shouldn't matter if it is one of the two.

Originally the 9N/2N did not have a solenoid or key start.
The key was just an on/off switch and the majority of them had
a push button by the shifter that pushed a mechanical linkage to
a switch under the battery box that engaged the starter.
Early models did not have that neutral safety switch by the shifter,
they had a push button on the dash. Still no solenoid though.

How many starters has it ruined? If I understand correctly, the
original one worked and it fried the replacement?

 

[phil_n]

Darn, Royse types faster than I do.

FWIW could be a 2N as Ford never used the 2 in the serial numbers - they all started with "9N" until the 8N. No?

 

[Ken(Ark)]

So I am pretty certain it is in fact a 9N.

9n/2n's have reverse + 3 forward gears and the large 6 bolt rear wheels . The starter has just a battery cable attached .


8n's have reverse + 4 forward gears and the small 8 bolt rear wheels . The starter has a battery cable attached to a solenoid which is mounted on top of the starter .

 

[Den N Ms]

(quoted from post at 20:00:32 02/17/15) Darn, Royse types faster than I do.

FWIW could be a 2N as Ford never used the 2 in the serial numbers - they all started with "9N" until the 8N. No?

Phil, Yes you are correct

 

[Dell (WA)]

Chunky........surprizingly enuff, the 9N/2N 6-volt starter works quite well on 12-volts. And 9N/2N's did NOT have starter solenoids like the 8N's did. More importantly, iff'n it did have an 8N's solenoid mounted, the little middle terminal must point to the block where it is hard to gitt-too. There are 4-terminal auto solenoids that fit but will let the SMOKE out iff'n you don't know how to wire it correctly. Most autoparts stores (tractor parts?) prominently display "NO RETURNS" on electrical parts. You maybe SOL. .......respectfully, Dell

 

[ASEguy]

If you suspect or can see any melted wire insulation, I would pull it all off and rewire it to factory. The harnesses aren't that expensive and well worth the headache.

 

[Poppy545]

Are you familiar with a 6 volt positive ground electrical system? That is what your tractor was originally wired for. Nowadays, everyone knows that the conductor wired to the engine block goes on the negative post of the battery, but not on these systems. Believe it or not, the positive battery post is connected to the frame of the tractor. Check your polarity. Good luck.

 

[Chunkin' Lead]

If the positive goes to the frame and the negative to the starter then polarity is defiantly fubar

I can swap this then reinstall old starter? Don't think it is completely dead

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Leave it alone.

That's not your problem.

If you put it back negative ground, then you will need to polarize the generator. It's not a big deal (see tip # 23) but you don't need to be sidetracked.

Put the old starter back on & fully charge the battery. If the starter won't spin, jump it per tip # 43.
75 Tips

 

[Royse]

"I can swap this then reinstall old starter?"

You said your tractor was 12V right? With an alternator?
Hooking it up backwards will fry your alternator too.
Almost all 12V conversion with an alternator are negative ground.

 

[Chunkin' Lead]

yes it has had an alternator conversion done.

i will try to jump directly to the starter and update from there

battery has been on charge for 24+ hours again so it should be good to go.

will post updates shortly

 

[Chunkin' Lead]

so i tried tip 43 and my cables got so hot it immediately melted the lead on the battery cable at the terminal on the positive side, also it does only have the battery cable on the starter and the 6 bolt rear wheels.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 03:40:10 02/19/15) so i tried tip 43 and my cables got so hot it immediately melted the lead on the battery cable at the terminal on the positive side, also it does only have the battery cable on the starter and the 6 bolt rear wheels.

So much for tips... Folks need to need how to read a VOLT METER instead of tote'N a tip book....