9n starting problems?

[mdmiller]

Hey guys, I tried posting a link a couple days ago and haven't got a reply and I cant find my post anywhere. I'm having the same sort of troubles with my 12V converted 9n. Ran fine one day wouldnt start the next. It will crank all day long but no start. I have nice blue/white spark jumping 3/16 - 1/4" gap. Fuel flowing freely from bottom of bowl. Air filter not plugged. New points and condensor, points gapped to .015, timed the distributor according to the manual. New 437 plugs and wires. New amp meter that the needle slightly moves back and forth when cranking. I have a squre can dist that is a lower profile than the replacements and it has a plug wire coming out of it that goes over to a round can coil on the side of the tractor. I have power to the top nut of the square can coil. I also have a brand new battery fully charged. I have a ballast resistor up underneath the battery. I pulled the distributor out for the 100th time and checked the continuity through the top electrical nut to the copper pigtail and I get .03 ohms. Is that good or bad? Any thoughts of where I can start next? I havent dove into the carb yet bacause I get good flow out of the bottom of it. Is there still a chance that I'm not getting fuel to the engine because of flooding? Again, I've tried to start it 50 times and not once did it try to fire? Thanks for the help, I'm stumped!

 

[R Geiger]

try jumping across the ballast resistor.
it takes three things to run
1: compression
2: fuel to the cylinders
3: spark to the plugs at the right time.

firing order is 1243 make sure it agrees with the rotation of the distributor.
If you are over choking it you may be flooding it, easy to do on these machines.

 

[HFJ]

u say good flow out of bottom of carb - for how long? can u fill a pint jar in 2 minutes with that flow?

[b:b65925be5c]"Is there still a chance that I'm not getting fuel to the engine because of flooding?"[/b:b65925be5c]

this confuses me. to me, flooding = too much gas.

for a quick test, pull the breather hose off the carb and shoot some starting fluid in there and see if it fires.

 

[mdmiller]

Thanks for the quick reply, I'll try
jumping the resistor. I'm still
wondering about spark at the right time?
I timed the distributor and according to
the dist cap I have the plug wires going
from #1 spot to #1 cyl, #2 going to #2
cyl, #3 going to #3 cyl, and #4 going to
#4 cyl. I know it spins counter
clockwise so the firing order is
1,2,4,3. I can't seem to find any timing
marks on the fly wheel, no inspection
plate on mine. I pulled the starter and
rolled it all the way around and didnt
see any?

 

[HFJ]

9N's don't have timing marks. this is why u couldn't find them

i've heard they are timed on the workbench, i've never had to touch mine so i won't try to explain how. someone else here will be able to explain it to u.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" timed the distributor "



" I can't seem to find any timing
marks on the fly wheel, no inspection
plate on mine."

Those statements are very confusing.

You have a front distributor. The flywheel does not having timing marks because they are not needed to set the timing. Tell us exactly how you set the timing; that might help us figure out why the tractor won't start.
75 Tips

 

[mdmiller]

Thanks, I'll try pulling the breather
off the side a giving it a shot
tomorrow. I've already tried a shot in
the air filter and nothing. If that
works, would you say the problem is not
enough gas getting to the carb? B/c I
can fill a pint jar in two min with the
flow and it stops when I close the
valve. My statement about flooding was
backwards, I meant flooding the
sparkies.

 

[mdmiller]

I already timed it according to the
manual on the bench and have the plugs
gapped to .015

 

[mdmiller]

I had the distributor on the bench, put a piece of flat stock on the tang on the wide end. Measured the 1/4" from the bolt hole and made a scribe mark. Hooked up my meter to the outside point and the other to the screw that clamps down the condensor wire aand rotated the rotor clockwise so when my flat stock was inline with my scribe mark the meter would stop buzzing and the points would be open.

 

[HFJ]

[b:4a77a1afec]"My statement about flooding was
backwards, I meant flooding the
sparkies."[/b:4a77a1afec]

ah, gotcha. this topic confuses me. i've read many times that flooded plugs have to be dealt with or they won't work. the only way i've dealt with them was by walking away and coming back later - at which point, if i didn't flood it AGAIN lol, it would start.

i flooded it a LOT before i learned that an N choke does not do good things when u pull it out and hold it out.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

OK, that's it.

Replace the plugs. If you flooded it, they're fouled & it will be it next to impossible to start. You don't need to toss them; heat the tips for a few seconds w/ a propane torch to burn off the invisible spark-robbing deposits from today's additive filled gasoline........or wash them in brake cleaner.

Next, put your battery on a charger. (see tip # 60)

You need a strong battery to:

1. Spin the starter

2. Engage the bendix

3. Provide voltage to the coil.

As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark.

The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition.

Finally, use starting fluid directly into the carb throat.

Post back with results or more questions.
75 Tips

 

[mdmiller]

They are brand new 437 plugs, and wires. Also a brand new battery with 100% charge. I'll try the shot directly into the carb tomorrow and maybe jumping the ballast resistor. Appreciate the help this is the first time I've used the forum. Awesome!

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" They are brand new 437 plugs"

That's not the point.

If you flooded the engine, the plugs are fouled.

 

[mdmiller]

I never hold the choke out, or never had
to anyway. I let it set for a couple
days and come back not using the choke
and nothing. This all started a couple
days after we got really warm here in
Mich and everything in my pole barn was
sweating. That was a couple weeks ago
and since then Ive had it in my garage
on the house and it stays about 50 to 55
in their nice and dry. I threw a heater
on it for awhile and since then pulled
the distributor on and off 50 times so
that still cant be wet. ???

 

[mdmiller]

Gotcha, I pulled them out and heated them up and cleaned them again and nothing changed, no start. I gues I'll go grab another set tomorrow and give it a whirl. I have spark and it's jumping a 1/4" gap to the engine block. Can't believe they are fouled out when they are sparking a 1/4" gap?

 

[HCooke]

Plugs are gapped at .025. Points are gapped at.015.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley]

Some cornfusion, maybe it's me, but you say it is a 9N model. What do you mean by 'square can dist' that is a lower profile than replacements? What wire goes over to a round can coil? Do you mean the round-can cutout circuit mounted on the back of dash/steering column? If so that is not correct. 9N's had no starter solenoid so we can rule that out. The 9N has a front-mounted distributor; crab shaped with four nipples for your spark plug wires -see picture below. The ignition coil is square (is that what you meant to say?) with one single wires secured on top to the stud with a hex nut and washer, and gets mounted to the top of the distributor and held on with a bail clamp. Ammeter movement is normal when cranking. Ignition coil -check separately off the distributor. Set your Multi-Meter to ? (OHMS) and touch one probe to the stud on top and the other probe to the pigtail spring on the bottom of coil. Polarity does not matter in this case. You should get a static reading of 1.3 OHMS. BING or GOOGLE JMOR's Wiring Diagrams and view all the correct ways of wiring the N-Series tractor. Are plugs getting fouled after cranking and no start? If so, not a fuel issue. I suspect you are close, but let's all be on the same page here first.

FORD N-SERIES TRACTOR FRONT MOUNT DISTRIBUTOR:

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)

 

[souNdguy]

My guess is he has one of those blank adapter plate kits that eliminates the square coil, and merely provides wireing connections to wire in a round coil, to/from, and then the round coil back to the cap.

To the OP... check to see if you have compression.

 

[mdmiller]

Yes, I have a square coil with a plug wire going over to the other round coil on the side of the tractor. I tried replacing the round coil with new, with no results. I haven't checked the compression with a guage but taking a plug out and holding my hand over the hole it sure felt like good compression. I will see if I can get my hands on a guage. Anybody know how much they are?

 

[mdmiller]

Thanks for the reply, yeah I meant to say square coil. I have a square coil that has a plug wire going from it over to a round coil on the side of the tractor. I tried replacing the round coil with no results. I checked the square coil for ohms and am only getting .03 or .04? Maybe cause it's got the guts out of it? I tried a new square coil on it that I got from TSC with no results. I put new plugs in it last week and cranked it and took a plug out to check it, it did seem a little wet on the prongs. Also, you mentioned a solenoid? I'm pretty sure I have a solenoid on it. Thanks for your help, much appreciated!

 

[souNdguy]

Your square "coil" is nothing but a place holder, wiring point now.

 

[souNdguy]

Is your round can coil 6v??

With a 12v machine, I'd be running a 12v coil and not a 6v coil and resistor...

If you have a 12v coil and resistor, bypass the resistor.

Post back.

 

[mdmiller]

I don't know what volt coil it is, but I bought a new 12V coil at TSC and didn't get any results. Apparently the square coil is just a wiring point now because it has that plug wire going from it over to the round coil. I tried replacing that as well with no results. Thanks for the help.

 

[souNdguy]

Yes, the square coil is a dummy.

If you use a 12v round, you need to bypass the resistor.

 

[mdmiller]

Awsome, that sounds promising, I'll try that. Although it worked all this time, then all of a sudden no start. How exactly do you bypass the ballast resistor? Thanks!

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Just run a jumper wire around it. Or run a jumper wire directly from the battery to the coil.
75 Tips

 

[mdmiller]

Okay, thanks Bruce!

 

[mdmiller]

The tractor is ALIVE!!! I bypassed the resistor and first turn of the key it fired! Thank you for the great advice, I bet I put 30 hours in this trying to figure it out! Thanks again

 

[souNdguy]

Good to hear

 

[mdmiller]

Bruce,

Thanks for telling me how to jump the resistor, first turn of the key and it fired up! Thanks for the help!

 

[Bruce (VA)]

You're welcome.

Next step is to see if you have a bad wire/connection/resistor between the resistor and the round coil or if it's a 12v coil which does not need a resistor.

Test the wires etc first.

If the coil measures 3.25 ohms or more, permanently remove the resistor. If the coil is less than that, buy a NAPA IC14SB 12v coil and permanently remove the resistor.
75 Tips

 

[HFJ]

great news, very glad to hear it

now, hopefully someone can tell me how a ballast resistor goes bad like this. can the resistor increase in resistance suddenly, without becoming infinite resistance?

 

[mdmiller]

Yeah, it was running one day and wouldnt
even fire the next. The only thing that
was different was the weather. It got
really warm up here in Michigan and
everything in my pole barn was sweating,
thats why I suspected the distributor
b/c my gaskets are horrible on the
distributor right now. I wonder if I
take the jumper off and replace the
resistor if it will fire?

 

[mdmiller]

Yeah, thats what I was thinking. I did find out the square coil is a dummy, I could see the liquid gasket that they used to put the top back on. The good coil is the round one on the side of the tractor. I'll try and put in a new resistor tomorrow. If that doesn't work, do I just connect the two wires together that were on each end of the resistor?

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" I'll try and put in a new resistor tomorrow."

You do not need resistor if you have or install a 12v coil.

As I said, " If the coil measures 3.25 ohms or more, permanently remove the resistor. If the coil is less than that, buy a NAPA IC14SB 12v coil and permanently remove the resistor"

 

[R Geiger]

(quoted from post at 21:33:25 02/01/17) I already timed it according to the
manual on the bench and have the plugs
gapped to .015

the plugs should be gapped to 0.025" .015"

 

[D.H]

If your not getting gas to the plugs try checking your intake manifold for leaks.You have a updraft system on that tractor and if its not getting a good draw you will not get gas to the plugs.

 

[mdmiller]

Thanks for the reply, but I got it running. I ran a jumper wire across the ballast resistor and it fired up the first time I turned it over! Thanks for the help!

 

[souNdguy]

Parts break...

 

[HFJ]

Things break, Colonel. Fires happen. Things burn.

after further review, i'll go with the increase in resistance being incremental, not sudden, and it just finally crossed the magic line.

 

[mdmiller]

Hey, I'm working on it right now, after I
got it started and running, I put new
gaskets on the distributor and changed the
oil and now it's backfiring bad! The gasket
I put on the distributor cap was cork and a
little thicker, would that of pushed the cap
out a little too far? When I test drove it 2
days ago after I started it the first time,
it was running good.

 

[Royse]

Did you remove all of the old gaskets?
Are you sure you have all the plug wires back in the right spots?
1-2-4-3 CCW from the top left on the cap viewed from the front.

 

[mdmiller]

Yes, all the old gaskets are off and
plug wires are installed correctly. I'll
take the distributor back off and re-
time it tomorrow. After it backfired a
couple times I moved the adjustment tab
and it got worse. I'm sure it just needs
some tweaking. Thank you!

 

[Royse]

Please tell us what you are calling backfire.
Folks define that differently all over the US it seems.

 

[mdmiller]

When I first let the clutch out it is
popping out of the exhaust real bad. Or if I
just pull the throttle lever down too fast
it pops real bad. Sounds like a 22 pistol.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

(quoted from post at 19:44:30 02/04/17) When I first let the clutch out it is
popping out of the exhaust real bad. Or if I
just pull the throttle lever down too fast
it pops real bad. Sounds like a 22 pistol.

A's Royse said, check the firing order.