Accidental diesel in a farmall 450 gas engine?

[oldfarmall]

Hello-

Well here is the story. I just got done putting a new engine clutch, ta clutch, and other parts in my Farmall 450 gas tractor. Went to drive it home Saturday from my friends house where we worked on it in his heated garage. Did not know if I could make it all the way home, so I stopped at the local Mobil gas station in town. Put 5 gallons of Super + premium unleaded gas in. Went down the road about a mile and noticed that when tractor bogs down on hill or when I shifted the TA in road gear it was blowing brownish dark smoke out exhaust. Did not smoke before I stopped at the gas station. Also, smelled a bit like diesel exhaust, not burning oil. The engine smoked a bit on hills and under load the rest of the 30 minute drive back. When I got back I shut it off. About an hour later, I started it up to put away in the barn, smoked constantly and alot until I shut it off, smelled of diesel, was a bit hard to start. Tonight I tried starting it, would not fire without starting fluid. Got it running, and smoked constantly again.

So, I drained all the fuel out of the tank. Next I started it up and let it run completely out of fuel. Refilled with 5 gallons of unleaded gas from our tank on the farm. Smoking went away shortly and engine ran fine when I went up to the woods and back. No more smoking under load or at all.

So, question is, did I do any damage to my engine? I saved the fuel I siphoned out. Any way to test my theory that it was diesel at a gasoline pump? Is diesel at the pump clear in color? I am supposed to be getting a call back from the gas station owner tomorrow. Needless to say, I am ------, as I just spent $1500 on the repair for the clutches. Hope I don't have to stick any money in the engine now. Thanks for any thoughts in advance!

-Jesse

 

[sflem849]

Diesel won't wreck a gas engine, especially a carbureted engine like that.

 

[Indiana Ken]

My concern for diesel fuel in a gasoline engine would be for spark knock/detonation. Diesel fuel would lower the octane of the gasoline remaining in the tank. The spark knock would be evident as a significant knocking noise. Since you made no mention of a noise I would say there was no damage to the engine.

You should be able to compare a sample of your fuel to a sample of gasoline, the color and a sniff test should indicate if it is contaminated. Off road diesel is dyed red - don't know about other diesel. I would think if the station's tank was contaminated there would be complaints from other customers.

A while back a friend filled his new truck (gasoline) with diesel fuel. Shortly after leaving the station it stopped completely. It was towed to the dealer and the fuel system was cleaned. There was no evidence of damage to the engine.

 

[clint s]

Would be red unless is was KERO or fuel oil. Happened at a station I worked at 30 years ago. They filled the tank with kerosene and it was at about a 50/50 mix . It was premium so not alot of cars ran it. I think they had cover the cost of 30 or so cars to be drained and ''cleaned'' . Did not hear of a major issue with any f them though.

 

[Bob M]

I'd not be concerned. It's happened to my tractors a couple times (inattentive operators refilling my Super M and Minne Mo U with diesel). Drained the tanks and refilled with fresh gas and all was good again.

Worst that can happen is fouled plugs and perhaps some dilution of the crankcase oil with gas/diesel mixture. If you are concerned, new set of plugs and an oil change should set your mind at ease.

 

[wisbaker]

Diesel into a gas engine....will/may stop running until you clean the fuel system, you may want to check the oil as when you were running it on diesel you can bet there was a lot of unburned fuel in the
process and it may end up in the crankcase.

If you put gasoline into a diesel engine you risk messing up the injector pump because gasoline isn't a very good lubricant and many injector pumps get some lubrication from the fule

 

[Tramway Guy]

Gasoline in a diesel would definitely be a problem, though!

 

[robgIN]

the only problem you may have is diluted oil . Check it to see if it is overfull or if it smells like diesel and is thinned out . If so change it , otherwise you are good to go.

 

[Russ from MN]

I put a little diesel in my Farmall C on purpose, hopefully it will reduce tank rusting and lower the octane a little. I only put a quart or 2 in 5 gallons of gas. It seems to run smoother that way.

 

[RBoots]

Off-Road diesel is dyed red. Usually that is
in a separate pump off by itself in any of
the stations around here that carry it, and
clearly marked. Regular old on road diesel
is for the most part "clear", but has just a
light greenish hue to it. Most diesel pumps
have a green handle on them at a station.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Many Farmall M's were run and worked hard all day every day on kerosene, so a light run down the road with a little diesel diluted in some gasoline did not harm your 450's engine.

As much as you don't like to think so, the most likely cause of the problem is that you messed up and inadvertently grabbed the diesel handle instead of the Super + handle as you claim.

The premium and diesel handles are often right next to each other on the pump, and like so many people you are depending on the pump handle to be a certain color to denote what type of fuel it is. I've heard people say that green is "standard" but ALL the pump handles at the old Hess stations were green because green was Hess's company color! All the handles at the local Valero are black. You can't depend on a color to tell you what kind of fuel you're pumping.

Your receipt will tell the tale.

 

[souNdguy]

It should RAISE the octane... diesel has a higher flash point.

Ethanol happens to be an octane modifier as well.

 

[Indiana Ken]

(quoted from post at 06:07:30 11/30/16)
It should RAISE the octane... diesel has a higher flash point.

Ethanol happens to be an octane modifier as well.

The flash point of diesel is higher. However, when adding diesel to gasoline the diesel will lower the octane rating of the resulting mixture.

Actually, diesel fuel carrys a cetane rating which is the ability of the fuel to burn immediately as it is injected into the hot compressed air in the combustion chamber. Diesel fuel with a lower cetane than the engine requires will cause diesel knock. This is because a low cetane fuel tends to puddle, then burns all at once rather than a smooth burn as it is injected.

Gasoline fuel carrys an octane rating which is the ability of the fuel to wait until the flame reaches it before burning. Gasoline fuel with a lower octane than the engine requires will cause engine knock (detonation).

Therefore, cetane can be thought of as the opposite of octane.

Gasoline engines designed to run on diesel like fuel (kerosene) have a greatly reduced compression ratio (lower octane requirement) and increased heat on the intake manifold to vaporize (higher flash point) the fuel.

 

[ericlb]

i put diesel in a gas tractor from the 50's once, it ran, but very badly and smoked like all get out, we drained the tank and flushed it with gas, then refilled it with gas, it ran fine and didnt have any problems, i did after i got my backside warmed up for doing it

 

[OldFarmall450]

Other than checking the oil I wouldn't worry about it much. Dad's JD mod A ran really well on diesel, other than killing it at lunch or in the field. We'd start it on drip then switch to diesel after it warmed up. I couldn't believe it the first time we used it, a carburetor and spark plug motor running on diesel.

My old boss in construction would put a pint of oil or diesel in a 5gal can for small engines...he called it cylinder lubricant.

 

[souNdguy]

What percentage did he put in? ( how much diesel was in his gas )

And what octane was his tractor designed to run on? 70's?

 

[oldfarmall]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! Very helpful. I did drive to the gas station this morning. The pump I filled up on was only for gasoline, no diesel nozzle. And it was the Mobil super + premium unleaded gas. I put in 5 gallons, my tank maybe had about 3 gallons of gas in it before adding the new. Just to be on the safe side I am probably going to change the oil.


-Jesse

 

[the tractor vet]

NO you did not hurt nothing but maybe foul the plugs a bit , No Hightest will not hurt anything . Could the gas you bought been bad, YEP sure could . Years back one of my customers had a Ford tractor that he used everyday on his small dairy farm that would not start and asked me to make it run and start . So we went and picked up the tractor and had to push it up on the trailer . Got it in the shop that evening and let it set over night . Next morning we got into it . Did a major tune up on it , replaced the plugs rebuilt the dist. rebuilt the carb fixed all woren out linkage cleaned the tank out and put new gas in it fro a little station down the road . Adjusted the valves and it ran like new . NOw to makes sure this tractor wasw going to start at his place on a cold and frosty morning we parked it outside over night in the cold , Next morning at 15 degrees outside as soon as i got to the shop before i even opened the doors and started cleaning thesnow off the lot i walked over and started the Ford. and fired up like summer time. . Ok i am happy i can take it back later today. Took the tractor back to his place and had to wait till the fuel guy got out of my road to back in and unload as he was filling the farm tank. Now when i put gas in that tractor i put ten gallon in it . Dropped it off and left i was happy he was happy for three days as now it will not start again . It is 0 outside and we have a dead tractor setting hooked to a spreader in a lean to with a full load on it in a semi frozen swamp of cow poo that does not run WHY . SOOOOOOOOOO i get one of my 706's and load it up to go drag the dead beast out and push up on the trailer . I left him with the 706 so he could do his daily hauling . Just love steam cleaning outside in 0 weather . Get the tractor in and the new plugs are fouled WHY ??? So install a new set of plugs and it starts and runs . Place tractor outside and try it the next morning , well it started but had a small miss that sorta cleared out but it was smoking while running WHY , Tried to readjust the carb to clear it up a bit but that was of no help . went and shut it down and it would not restart , the new plugs were fouled again. So i started to look at the gas that was in the tractor , I took a large coffee can and put about a 1/4 of a can full of gas from the tractor and took it out in the parking lot and threw a match into it --------- the match went out like if you would have throwen it into a bucket of water . Ended up[ draining the gas out of the tractor and putting in ten gallon of gas from the station and the problem was solved . The customer came to the shop and we had a demo of his gas from his tractor and a match and the gas from the station and a match . What had happened was that the fuel delivery guy had been hauling home heating oil (diesel#2 ) and did not fully drain the tank on the truck or flush the hose then hauled 300 gallin of 1/3 diesel and 2/3 gas to the customer . So you really never know just how good your fuel is . If you run a semi over the road you get to find this out alot first hand .

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

The only problem with this is that a pump doesn't just shoot out 5 gallons of diesel, and then go back to premium gasoline.

If the handle was pumping diesel, other people got diesel in their tanks too, and probably in a modern fuel injected vehicle where diesel will do some damage. Where are they?

 

[Goose]

Probably didn't hurt anything.

My wife once inadvertently put diesel in a garden tractor with a 24hp Briggs engine. I drained the entire fuel system and put gasoline back in it. It smoked for a bit after I got it running again, but no damage. I'm still using it.

 

[OldFarmall450]

(quoted from post at 07:34:56 11/30/16)
What percentage did he put in? ( how much diesel was in his gas )

And what octane was his tractor designed to run on? 70's?

Soundguy, not sure if your question was for me...but we ran straight diesel in the JD after it warmed up. The JD was started on gas or drip, then diesel was used afterward, usually running it dry at end of day. It was a bare-knuckled batch to crank on diesel if it cooled down. You had to jump off and crank for your life if you killed it.
It was a 1941 all fuel mod A.

 

[CenTex Farmall]

No damage done. I once out diesel in dads
super h because he had put diesel in a red
gas can for a different tractor. It smoked
bluish smoke and ran a little rough but was
fine.

 

[souNdguy]

Yup, I'm familiar with gas start, tvo run machines. My question was to the op. Some here are acting lil it will nuke the machine, and as many of us know,it won't.

 

[rhtx55]

The good news is, not only is the inside of the tank very clean, but a bit of rust preventive treatment.