Adding a joystick to a 727 loader

[root]

I have a 4000 with a 727 loader on the front running off the 2 spool under the seat. I'd like to add a joystick to the loader and keep the 2 spool under the seat for rear outputs if possible. My question is if this can work do I need an open center joystick for this setup? I don't know a great deal about hydraulics so I'm not sure what other questions need to be asked.

 

[Sean in PA]

Yes, that system is open center. If you want the full use of the 2 remote valves for other things, you should get an HV4902 or HV5902 adapter plate to mount under the remote valves. The HV4902 just has power and return ports, while the HV5902 also has a port for power beyond if you think that you might want to power a second implement from there in the future. If you go with the HV5902, I would recommend that you go with a joystick controller for the loader that has power beyond capability so you can use any open center implement down the road.

 

[root]

Yes, that system is open center. If you want the full use of the 2 remote valves for other things, you should get an HV4902 or HV5902 adapter plate to mount under the remote valves. The HV4902 just has power and return ports, while the HV5902 also has a port for power beyond if you think that you might want to power a second implement from there in the future. If you go with the HV5902, I would recommend that you go with a joystick controller for the loader that has power beyond capability so you can use any open center implement down the road.

Thanks for the info. I'm glad this can be done. Any idea on gpm for the stick size?

 

[Sean in PA]

Anything rated at or above 8gpm should be plenty. The 4 cylinder pre-1965 4000 hydraulic pump only put out about 4gpm, and the standard one on the 1965-1975 3 cylinder 4000 was 4.7gpm, and if it's a 1965-1975 3 cylinder with the S-O-S transmission, then that one was rated at 7.8gpm. I used a 12gpm rated joystick when I put a loader on my '73 4000 with the S-O-S and it was fine,. I don't think that I even found one that was rated lower than 12gpm, or if I did, they were more expensive than the 12gpm joystick valves on surpluscenter.com. That was about 10 years ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details.

 

[root]

Anything rated at or above 8gpm should be plenty. The 4 cylinder pre-1965 4000 hydraulic pump only put out about 4gpm, and the standard one on the 1965-1975 3 cylinder 4000 was 4.7gpm, and if it's a 1965-1975 3 cylinder with the S-O-S transmission, then that one was rated at 7.8gpm. I used a 12gpm rated joystick when I put a loader on my '73 4000 with the S-O-S and it was fine,. I don't think that I even found one that was rated lower than 12gpm, or if I did, they were more expensive than the 12gpm joystick valves on surpluscenter.com. That was about 10 years ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details.

Thanks again for all the help

 

[root]

Anything rated at or above 8gpm should be plenty. The 4 cylinder pre-1965 4000 hydraulic pump only put out about 4gpm, and the standard one on the 1965-1975 3 cylinder 4000 was 4.7gpm, and if it's a 1965-1975 3 cylinder with the S-O-S transmission, then that one was rated at 7.8gpm. I used a 12gpm rated joystick when I put a loader on my '73 4000 with the S-O-S and it was fine,. I don't think that I even found one that was rated lower than 12gpm, or if I did, they were more expensive than the 12gpm joystick valves on surpluscenter.com. That was about 10 years ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy on the details.

Anything specific I need to look for on the joystick for the single acting lift cylinders?

 

[mhb@ufe]

Anything specific I need to look for on the joystick for the single acting lift cylinders?

You will need a valve that is single acting on one spool and double acting on the other spool.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Anything specific I need to look for on the joystick for the single acting lift cylinders?

You will be hard pressed to find a single acting joystick loader valve. For your application purchase a cheap DA loader valve with tank and power beyond ports like this one and plumb the unused work port on the boom spool to tank.

Hydraulic Directional Control Valve for Tractor Loader w/ Joystick, 2 Spool (Single Float Spool Optional), 11 GPM

FREE SHIPPING This Monoblock Hydraulic Directional Control Valve uses a Joystick, 2 Spools and has a capacity of 11 GPM. These valves are used to start and stop fluid flow into hydraulic cylinders or hydraulic motors.

summit-hydraulics.com

Dan

 

[Harry in Ky]

If you decide to go with a dedicated loader valve you need to consider getting one of these as well. It's the simplest way I know of to add a valve and retain the existing spool valve you have now. I've installed dozens of them and never had an issue with one. There is a cheaper version (HV4902) but it has pipe thread ports and only two of them. You need the one with three ports because the 4000 has no convenient sump return port available. And yes, you do want a loader valve with a power beyond sleeve, so make sure you order that along with the valve to make sure you get the right part.

 

[Sean in PA]

If you decide to go with a dedicated loader valve you need to consider getting one of these as well. It's the simplest way I know of to add a valve and retain the existing spool valve you have now. I've installed dozens of them and never had an issue with one. There is a cheaper version (HV4902) but it has pipe thread ports and only two of them. You need the one with three ports because the 4000 has no convenient sump return port available. And yes, you do want a loader valve with a power beyond sleeve, so make sure you order that along with the valve to make sure you get the right part.

The third port on the HV5902 adapter plate is only needed if the external valve is configured for power beyond. If the external valve is an open center valve without power beyond, the the return port from the external valve connects to the R port of the HV4902. There is no need for power beyond if he does not intend to power a second implement off of the adapter plate.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Why would anyone go to the trouble and expense to install a loader valve in today's world WITHOUT power beyond? He already stated he wants to keep the existing remotes, plus the three point is still in the mix. Power beyond is the only practical way to go.

 

[TheOldHokie]

The third port on the HV5902 adapter plate is only needed if the external valve is configured for power beyond. If the external valve is an open center valve without power beyond, the the return port from the external valve connects to the R port of the HV4902. There is no need for power beyond if he does not intend to power a second implement off of the adapter plate.

The loader (aux) valve will be the first valve in a three valve chain.

It will be receIvIng pressure from the P port on the takeoff plate and returning pressure to the return port on that plate. That pressure is then sent to the OEM valve on top of the plate, passes through that valve and on to the 3pt valve before it gets to tank.

The HV4902 instructions incorrectly call the return port a tank return port and it is NOT. It is by definition a power beyond (PB), high pressure carry over (HPCO), or neutral (N) return port.

Regardless of which plate you use for the takeoff your addon valve is always supplying another inplement (the 3pt) and it needs both a PB/HPCO/N outlet port and a separate direct to tank (T) outlet port.

If you use the HV4902 plate for your takeoff you would connect the outlet port on it to the inlet (P) on the aux valve and connect the PB/HPCO/N outlet port on the aux valve to the high pressure return port on the HV4902. You must then run a separate low pressure tank return line from the T port on the aux valve direct to sump. Thats often done by drilling and tapping the cap on the hydraulic filler.

Here is a diagram of the flow using the HV4902 and the OEM remotes. It should be clear why you need a loader valve with power beyond.

As Harry explained the HV5902 plate provides a third direct to tank return port for that purpose eliminating the need to find one somewhere else or modify the filler cap.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Just for your amusement here is my NAA version of the HV4902. It has two SAE-6 top ports for pressure out and power beyond return.
Tank return is via a custom made filler cap that would work fine on any model tractor that uses the 2-12 UN threaded cap.

Dan