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Advice wanted.

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jon f mn

jon f mn

Well-known Member
I had just decided to go with the new truck when Dart called me with another offer. I can get the new truck no problem, but they offered an incentive to keep the old one. If I keep this one they will cut my payments $800.00/mo less, and shorten the term left from 25 months to 16. They will also cut the buy out from $16,000 to $7500.00. This is a huge savings. This is against the value of warranty on all emissions on the new truck with $2500/mo payments. That's a lot of money savings but I would still have an old truck with no warranty. Is the money savings enough to risk the posible maintainance cost? Before this $11,000 repair I had spent $25,000 on emissions so far. Now I'm all confused again. Lol.
 
I bet you never spent that kind of money on the old Gray Ghost, without all that crap.
Well here I go again with the grim reaper bit. HeHe.
I guess you will have to decide how much longer you want to drive. Another couple of years, keep the Volvo. You want to run longer Buy the KW.
Am I back on your call list?? HeHe.
Loren
 
A new truck is piece of mind that everything is taken care of. This is your job - you can't have down time that costs you 25 grand. It's like the farmers here that cut 800 acres of wheat with ancient machines that are so beat it all goes out the back. Harvest is your payday - don't throw an old machine at it (mine is 20 years old but has been well cared for and usually does its 800 acres with no trouble). You can bet if my combine gave me fits like your truck it would be traded. Go with the new truck.

It's apples to oranges, but I have a 10 speed in my Freightliner here on the farm. I really like it and there's not that much shifting with only 10 gears.

So, the real question is...

Are you going to have the eagle put on your new machine, too? Super single tires? There are lots of things about your "old" machine we have gotten used to. Don't go making us wonder about it all!
 
You posted this while I was answering the post below. Google Fitzgerald in Crossville, TN. New glider built to your specs, better mileage, and lower operating cost. I hear a lot of good things about them.

You can watch their videos tonight, and give them a call in the morning.

I'm afraid you are at the point that things are only going to get worse.

Good luck, what ever you decide!
 
I saw your post below, but I missed what happened to your Volvo? Is it not repairable? I don't know anything about tractors, but my friend who has a construction company has all peterbuilt tractors and dump trucks. Good luck.
 
(quoted from post at 17:28:42 01/03/17) I had just decided to go with the new truck when Dart called me with another offer. I can get the new truck no problem, but they offered an incentive to keep the old one. If I keep this one they will cut my payments $800.00/mo less, and shorten the term left from 25 months to 16. They will also cut the buy out from $16,000 to $7500.00. This is a huge savings. This is against the value of warranty on all emissions on the new truck with $2500/mo payments. That's a lot of money savings but I would still have an old truck with no warranty. Is the money savings enough to risk the posible maintainance cost? Before this $11,000 repair I had spent $25,000 on emissions so far. Now I'm all confused again. Lol.
Click to expand...

Why is Dart trying to get you to keep it? Seems fishy they would knock off all that $$$$$. What's in it for them?
 
Only 1 question I would ask myself , am I going to keep driving for another 5 years ? If the answer is yes , then go to the new truck now. You are now spending money on repairs, and every year you keep the truck , it will have less resale value. So even if you are not making a payment on the truck , just owning it has a cost. You haven't had to do a in frame on this truck yet, but you may well if you run it two or three years. Then you will feel that you will feel that you will have to keep it to get your $$ back . We never really own trucks or tractors , if we run them , they have a cost. My newer tractors , that catch the most hours, I don't want to keep them past 2500 hours. At this point for me , the tractor is five years old, out of warranty, but still a very desirable tractor for resale, and I will get a good trade value. Best part for me is that I only pay for the tractor, not parts , labour , and a 2500 hours , these two tractor both have loaders , and would need front tires, and I don't buy them either. So for me , the cost of owning the new tractor is the difference between would I get for the trade , and what I have to shell out for the new one. I divide that number by 5 , and that is what it cost me per year for the last five years to run a new rig. So if the difference was say $50,000 , that would be 10 grand per year, or $830. per month actual cost. Can be hard to become comfortable with this concept , but no matter how you look at it owning will cost , buy new, with little down time , or keep them forever , and loose money on the side of the road, and in the repair shop while other trucks run by hauling loads. Tough call for sure. I know farm tractors are different , but I don't want my main tractor down with crop to take off, any more than you want to miss a load while being stuck in a hotel room miles from home.
 
Sleep on it. Don't necessarily let the emotion of that bill talk you in to more payments.
 
Yes, ideally let it cook and think it over, OTOH, you have to tell them soon whether to fix this or patch it up for trade.

Is it just emissions, or does/will it affect drive-ability, safety, etc? I don't want to go political on you, but the hippies I work with are certain the the EPA will be abolished in about three weeks and we'll all be burning baby seals and polar bears instead of fossil fuels. Not likely, but I'd at least consider the politics before buying an new truck with even stricter/more spendy emissions gear.

How perminent is this fix? Is it "oh, this will fix it for sure, won't ever be a problem again" or "Huh, not sure what's going on, computer says to replace this $5000 gizmo first, then run another test"?

I'd suggest pencilling the numbers out, estimating break even in years/miles. Factor in your sanity, how long can you afford to sit at random truckstops while somebody else haul$ your load. Where is it going to break down next. Chain up area on Konosha pass in a blizzard?

Then sleep on it and give them your answer in the morning.

(I'm cheap, I'd patch it up but I'm not loosing money while it's parked)

Best,

Bob
 
So, guessing you are making payments around $2K now, they are looking at knocking off about $40K over the next year and a half. IF future repairs cost about the same, and cost you the same amount of time, a couple of grand worth no doubt, you could afford three more breakdowns like this one and still be money ahead. And then pay even more for a newer truck two years from now...
 
Go with the Fitzgerald. Worked with guys that had them, great trucks.
Series 60 is an excellent motor. Almost as good as a 6NZ or N14. Otherwise go with
Kenworth with the 10 speed. There is a big reason for them to want you to keep it. THEY DO NOT WANT IT EITHER! Look at what it has cost you so far. It is like I
heard a very smart man say a while back. " If someone wanted to GIVE me a brand
new truck with an ISX motor I would tell them to keep it!".

Bob.
 
Eldon the resale on the Volvo is in the tank. I think Jon is leasing the truck he currently has. Dart has taken the tax credits already but does not want stuck with a truck that is going to be tough to sell. They still show a high value on their books but in the real world this truck is not a high dollar truck.

It has several BIG hard selling points:
1) It is an Volvo. the resale on a Volvo has always be 15-20% less than Freightliner or International and 30-40% less than Pete or Kenworth.
2) It is an emission controlled engine that is out of warranty.
3) It is not a live tandem truck. So it market is real limited other than road work.
 
Jon the emission issue on a truck the age of yours are just going to keep coming. Also the Volvos seem to have MAJOR troubles in this area. Good friend has a day cab he haul grain with. He had to replace the fuel injectors at 75K and even with warranty it cost him $5000.

It would seem your leasing the current truck. The only way I would consider the deal Dart is offering you, is if your going to retire in the next 24 to 36 months. The truck you have is not going to have a very good resale at anytime. So if you keep it you should plan on the value being low when you done with it in 24-36 months.

IF your going to keep driving then the newer truck would be a better deal. Reliability, warranty and resale would soon make the additional money be well spent.

Just think of the down time you have already had. This will only get worse as the truck gets older.
 
Is there an option to remove the emissions equipment? There is a big aftermarket industry with diesel pickups to do this, and depending on where it is licensed, there may be no fear of being caught.

Rich
 
Forget what you already have in this one, those are sunk costs and don't figure into the decision.

Suppose you didn't have any truck today, but needed one. You two choices - which would you choose?

1) a well used truck for 16 month lease with a $7500 buyout and whatever the monthly payment is, no warranty

2) a new truck with $2500 per month and a full warranty
 
None of us can predict the future and what repairs you will have to do with a older truck.
So I try to look at what trading up would cost.
Lets go with you keep the old truck 25 more months then trade it.

New truck
$2500 x 25 months = $62500

If we assume you are paying $2000 for the old truck - the $800 dart is willing to eat.
$1200 x 16 months = $19200

So the new truck will cost you $43300 more over the 25 months
We need to take the $5000 off to get you threw this repair that you could save by trading.
So the new truck will cost you $38300 more.

That means the warranty on the new truck will cost you about $18384 per year.

When you consider lost miles in it just 1 more repair like this per year and you have blown all your savings by staying in the older truck.

I realize a 18k cut in pay per year is hard to swallow but the 18k will at least give you piece of mind.
Now it is your call because we can not make it for you.
 
Can't be done on trucks because dealers are required to report that 8f you do come in for repairs plus they can't fix them. So if you do that you can never go to a dealer for repairs again. At least that is what the dealer told me today.
 
Sorry I missed your call, been on the phone. Lots of calls to make tonight to figure all this out. I'll call you tomorrow.
 
New truck would be black and have twin screw with duals. Don't know what of anything I would put on it. Not sure an eagle would fly on a black truck.
 
I hope that's it. When I was driving milk truck,the guy I drove for wanted to sell the route to me. One of the head guys from Carnation out of California was here and advised me not to do it "right now". He was the only one who knew at the time that the plant was closing. Just sayin.
 
Hmm, pickups must be different, whenever I take my Ram to the dealer they ask me if it is OK to update the system, they do not want to interfere with any "updates" I may have made.

Also if there is no warranty, why do you have to go to a Volvo dealer for repairs?

FYI, there was a company in Pittsburg Pa that "updated" software.

Good Luck
Rich
 
I too played the owner operator game. I made good money, paid for trucks and got out while in black ink. Today I hear more bad stories than good one from guys like you. Why not slide into the seat of someone else's truck, make good money and not even think about repairs or taxes. You can drive and sing along to the radio. Not spend most of your time trying to plan your next move. When you drive someone the other guys truck who cares if you need a new set of steers? Who cares if you start to feel a vibration? Just tell the owner or dispatch you need service, take a week end off and mess with your farm. Fu%$# that truck, it will be repaired and ready to roll when your log says you can roll again. They are paying really good wages now days for good drivers that can pass a drug test. You can make money with little liability. You can walk away at any time. No strings. Just my 2.5 cents,,, Al
 
Well, Jon, there are a lot of things to consider. You also have a number of things about your current truck that I would want to see different.
First, having driven a few of those "automatics," I would not want to have one. When service starts coming up on them, they will get VERY expensive.
Second is that single drive axle with a lift axle. You have said that it seems to be ok, but what does it do to the resale value?
Third is that name on the front of the truck. Bear in mind that I spent the better part of 10 years in a Volvo. What I will say is that a Volvo is a good riding truck and the steering is excellent. BUT... the parts and labor on them is disproportionately high. More mainstream brands like IH, Freightliner, KW and Pete may be a bit easier on the wallet in times of breakdowns.
Last, I will say this: Warranty is definitely a consideration, BUT that also runs out, and in 5 more years or so, you could find yourself in the same situation as you are in now. As such, warranty is a limited time solution to expensive repairs.

My little bit of input.
 
We have a fleet of Allison automatics in severe service, garbage trucks, stop and go hills heavy loads, the automatics are by no means a big maintenance expense, they are very reliable and very easy to service, filters come out the bottom without dropping pan on a big Allison. These aren't your Sunstrands and Allison's of the 80s by any means.
 
My auto shift is not an automatic like an allison. Mine is a standard 12 spd manual transmision with computer controlled air shifters and clutch. I would imagine you could concievably pull the air controls off and add a shift lever and clutch peddle and manually shift it.
 
Get the new truck. The stress alone of breakdowns with no warranty is worth the difference unless you want to spend all your free time wrenching yourself. John
 
Hi Jon ,, this is jim from tractor pullin Harrison co fair , southern ind .. Man, I Feel for you with the tuf decision you have to make,.. but ,i know with all the well intentioned comments from our wise brothers here ,.. you will be able to sort it out ,.. I took note of the expense of going with a new rig ,.. also , took note of the special deal that Dart offered to keep ya going ,.. they did that for lots of reasons , and I would say they are more seasoned folx ,than us farm boys when it comes to making dollars on the road ....could be as other posters said they don't want the truck sidelined in the auction line up and would rather have it mining coal , so to speak ,.or maybe they Simply JUST LIKE You! and want to give you a great deal ,.LOl. that's easy for most of us to understand ,..lol ,,. but at any rate they are indeed putting their best foot forward ,,. and you have to appreciate that ,.at decision times like this , my dad , qould go fishing with a six pack , usually come back with a stringer of fish and a good decision for the times,,. my mother would resort to prayer,.. and I guarantee one thing for sure ,, my dad asked for guidance from above while fishing ,.. I am Confident , You will make the rite decision ,. best regards, jim
 
Well I might be in the minority here but I would strongly consider the deal on the existing unit. I am aware that resale value is next to zero on that truck. I assume the repair has already been done. Chances are you are good to go for the next 16 months and smaller payment= more for you. Do you know truck service places that are cheaper than the dealer and how much can you do yourself. I didn't get why there was a smaller price for repairs if you traded. Seemed like there was more to the story and I am missing something but could not find an older post on the topic. Would just doing the minimum get another 16 months out of the truck? Good luck whichever direction you choose.
 
I am a retired truck mechanic-close to 2 yrs now. Some trucks seem to have a lot of problems with emission controls and others do not,same truck,same customer.There is a lot of 'science' involved in diagnosing dpf and def codes,and techs are still learning ,and actually so are the OEMs.We were doing a lot of ecm upgrades-in fact a lot of fault code trees said to check for the latest upgrade first.The time it takes to diagnose this this stuff CORRECTLY is staggering=$$$. That all being said-NO WAY would I ever own a truck,and pay for repairs.Drive for someone else reputable and let them pay for repairs.In a fleet,1 truck will eat the profits of several others.The other trucks will average out the repair bills.Mark
 
I once had an ole timer tell me the best thing he ever did was to get a new truck and throw his toolbox away ! Spend more time driving and less time fixing.
 
You have lots of choices. Stay with what you have,get a new one,sell it or give it back and get a job local with a steady weekly check.
You can also look at a full maintenance lease from Ryder,Peske,Navastar or Paclease. They all have fair plans that don't cost a arm or leg now.
Take a few days and check it all out,then pick the two best choices and sleep on it! You have lots of time to chose.
I have owned my own and leased some. Done the full maintenance lease thing too and in the end its all the same. With a small amount of luck you will survive and prosper.
 
I've looked at that too, but haven't been able to make that work either. Doesn't seem like I make much at this, but when I do the math I can't find anything as good or better either.
 
Another consideration would be fuel milage. A twin screw is not only heavier, but has a higher rolling resistance than your current truck. The W900 style KW is not as aerodynamic as the Volvo, so if the new truck is a W900. So at a half mile to the gallon loss in mileage the additional cost in full at $2.45 a gallon over 1,000,000 miles would be $17,172 more than the current truck.

Don't know all the details just throwing out an example for consideration.
 
I have driven the Allisons in 26 foot box trucks. The really do drive nicely, and have NONE of the bad habits of those nasty auto shifters. I haven't seen any in road tractors as of yet. I drove several of those auto shifters. HATED them!! No smooth way to back up to a dock. Bang the dock too hard every single time. Then there is that waste of shifting gears that comes with a light load. With a 9-speed, I could move out an empty trailer in 4th gear, skip to 6th, and then go 7,8, and 9. Auto shifters will usually not let you start in a higher gear or skip gears. The company I worked for offered me one of them brand new. I drove it once, brought it back and told them I wanted my old truck back.
 
Don't know all your details, but, I did the owner operater gig from 79-2001. I miss not having a truck that will run the speed limits. I enjoy not having repair bills or spending all weekend every weekend doing maintenance. I see no future or benefit to work hard just to pay expenses. At least now my paycheck is used at home, not on the truck. Just something to consider. Let someone else pay repairs and maintenance. I figure to have at least doubled my "take home " pay driving a company ride versus my own. Just saying...
 
This might be too far down the list to be read, but I have trucked a lot of my life. Owner operator most of it. I have owned most brands. Never bought a new truck. I had a Volvo, best riding truck I ever drove. I bought it used because it was a cheap truck for the mileage and age. That means the resale is low. It was a good truck and made me a living. I would not work for Dart. I had friends who did, and none of them ever got a fair deal. I would not buy a new truck. The emissions are killers. The ones I am familiar with get bad fuel mileage and spend a lot of time in the shop. Most of the guys I worked with are rebuilding their old trucks.The last company I was leased to, the fellow over the truck shop told me to never buy a truck newer than a 2006 and better yet an 2002. They had a lot of trouble with the newer ones. A lot of them went to driving a company truck. Less headaches and pressure, and more clear money. I pulled a tank most of the time, less waiting time. Also easier work and better money.
 
Jon, I do not have a dog in this fight but have been on both sides of that fence, self employed and company driver. From this retired (and some people also say retarded) mind find out from Dart the pay-off on your loan. Per the thought of others you may be under a lease but a workable or close number should be available. What is the current wholesale value of the truck? That may be two numbers, one with repaired to get running and one repaired for the long term. How close are those numbers? I suspect with the model year, miles, resale reputation for Volvo, etc. those two figures are real close together. Can you sell the truck to Dart, thereby essentially cancelling the lease, and collect the remaining equity, if any? Then become a Dart driver in the Volvo. Your time, family, farming interests, etc. seem to be more valuable/useful with your 'free' (34 hours off) time than truck maintenance, etc. I have two nephews in similar situations to yourself, except younger, with no where near your experience and I suspect financial resources. They are struggling to keep ahead of payments, repairs, family expenses/commitments, much less put any away for down payment when the old beater needs to be replaced. Just my $.02 worth and value it at half that.
 
John, I just retired from the trucking business after 48 years. I had one truck, my own authority, and one driver (me). If I were to start over again, I would do the very same thing. I did use brokers but only hauled loads that paid worth hauling and did not haul ANY cheap freight. My last truck was a 1998 Peterbilt 379 with a 3406E Cat, 18 spd. I ran it for 1.8 million miles with only one overhaul and one transmission rebuild. Loved that truck and hated to quit, but at 70 yrs old I decided it was time to enjoy life. These new trucks are designed to be throw away truck and in an effort to meet all the EPA regs, the manufacturers have been forced to used technology that isn't perfected and consequently there are thousands of truck with few miles, sitting on dealer lots that won't run and no one seems to be able to fix them. You would be far better off to buy a good, pre 2005 truck, a used trailer, and get out from under the big company. They want to keep you indebted to them so you have to do what they want, regardless of the money. If you want to talk about it, just let me know and I will send you my phone #.
 
If you haven't had the injector cups replaced in that Volvo engine, you soon will have to. Mine went out at 575,000miles along with 4 of the 6 injectors. Our fleet of Volvos seem to have a lot of troubles with them at that mileage.
 
This I-shift eliminates all those issues. I can back up to a dock as easy as with a clutch and it automatically skips gears if the load is right. I drove some of those older models and you are right about them, but this one doesn't work that way.
 
I've been told, if you find the right menu, you can toggle one setting, and the Volvo computer ignores all emissions sensors, allowing a very cheap delete.

What the dealer told you is probably a Volvo policy regarding warranty.

And don't get caught in California with a deleted truck. N14s can be bought cheap right now because of CARB.
 
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