AGM (acid glass mat) batteries on older farm machinery---can they take the charging system?

[littlefarmer]

I've been hearing a lot about the newer AGM (acid glass mat) batteries. That's where they don't have "flooded" electrolyte like conventional batteries. Because all the acid is in a glass mat "sponge" between the plates. This has some advantages; such as faster charging, no acid leaks, no corrosion and last twice as long (or more). But most important (for farm machinery) they are much tougher in vibration and heat.

However a downside I've read (besides being higher priced) is that they are very sensitive to getting too much charge voltage. That anything over about 14 volts can damage them.

I have a Farmall H and an M, and also a IH 1420 combine. These are working machines that I farm with. And from what I've read about the AGM batteries, there would be definite advantages to having them on these machines. But I am wondering about the "sensitive to charging voltage" thing. My H and M have alternator conversions. I am wondering if my tractors and my 1420 combine charging systems can work with these AGM batteries? Or do you need a modern charging system that won't go over the 14 volt limit? Any advice appreciated!

 

[waugh621]

I've been hearing a lot about the newer AGM (acid glass mat) batteries. That's where they don't have "flooded" electrolyte like conventional batteries. Because all the acid is in a glass mat "sponge" between the plates. This has some advantages; such as faster charging, no acid leaks, no corrosion and last twice as long (or more). But most important (for farm machinery) they are much tougher in vibration and heat.

However a downside I've read (besides being higher priced) is that they are very sensitive to getting too much charge voltage. That anything over about 14 volts can damage them.

I have a Farmall H and an M, and also a IH 1420 combine. These are working machines that I farm with. And from what I've read about the AGM batteries, there would be definite advantages to having them on these machines. But I am wondering about the "sensitive to charging voltage" thing. My H and M have alternator conversions. I am wondering if my tractors and my 1420 combine charging systems can work with these AGM batteries? Or do you need a modern charging system that won't go over the 14 volt limit? Any advice appreciated!

I cant speak for your situation speificaly but most alternators charge around 13.5V so the AGM batteries should be fine. If your worried about it put an voltage tester on at a high idel
Nate

 

[JMOR]

GM manual (before AGM batteries) says alt output set at 14.2v - 14.6v, and acceptable range for use is 13.5 to 15.2v.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

I don't think AGM batteries are worth it strictly from a financial standpoint. They cost more than flooded batteries, but do they give proportionally longer service? That is to say if the AGM costs twice as much, does it last at least twice as long?

Mistakes and failures also cost more. Maintaining a fleet of equipment, it's inevitable that you'll leave a switch on somewhere, or a parasitic draw will develop on a machine and kill the battery. Now instead of a $70 Walmart Value Special, you've ruined a $250 AGM battery.

 

[Hemmjo]

AGM batteries do last longer, but they do not dissipate heat as well as flooded batteries. Thus they cannot tolerate high charge loads. They are better for rough service since the glass mats between the plates tend to hold things in place so they cannot be shaken out of place.

I heard this about batteries. If you have 2 batteries, both the same physical size, get the one with the LOWEST Cold Cranking amps if you want the longest lasting battery. This may seem counter to our desire to get the most for our money. However it makes sense, because the only way to get more CCA in the same size battery is to have more plates. In order to get more plates, each plate has to be thinner and have less space between the plates. Thin plates are more fragile and more subject to damage from bumps and vibration. Thicker plates should last longer.

 

[John M]

I have ther AGM from my 2018 Yukon in my Farmall M right now. HAs about 9 hours on it since I put it in there, and no issues at all. I run the Delco 10DN alternator on it and havent had any issues. (Just FYI I thought the battery was bad, turned out to be the starter.)

 

[Geo-TH,In]

I've been hearing a lot about the newer AGM (acid glass mat) batteries. That's where they don't have "flooded" electrolyte like conventional batteries. Because all the acid is in a glass mat "sponge" between the plates. This has some advantages; such as faster charging, no acid leaks, no corrosion and last twice as long (or more). But most important (for farm machinery) they are much tougher in vibration and heat.

However a downside I've read (besides being higher priced) is that they are very sensitive to getting too much charge voltage. That anything over about 14 volts can damage them.

I have a Farmall H and an M, and also a IH 1420 combine. These are working machines that I farm with. And from what I've read about the AGM batteries, there would be definite advantages to having them on these machines. But I am wondering about the "sensitive to charging voltage" thing. My H and M have alternator conversions. I am wondering if my tractors and my 1420 combine charging systems can work with these AGM batteries? Or do you need a modern charging system that won't go over the 14 volt limit? Any advice appreciated!

My car requires a Delco AGM battery.
The battery engagement system on a cold day can charge it as high as 15.2 volts.
When you get off the gas and coast, the car can go into a regen mode and the charging voltage will be 15.2v.
Newer car have auto stop/start mode at stop lights. The delco battery is rated over 1000 cca.
So what you read about over charging isn't true.
The upside to AGM battery is they vent no acid fumes like a wet cell.
No oxidation on the battery terminals. Zero maintenance.

I bought my Delco AGM battery from Summit racing for $169. $100 dollars cheaper than any auto store in town.
3 year free replacement.
My OEM battery was 6 years old. It still worked. I decided to change it before I traveled 1000 miles to Florida.
The battery is too big for my tractors, but will work in my dump trailer which has more room.

 

[NDIHC]

I've had an AGM on my Hydro 70 for about 3 or 4 years with no problem. It was a new battery that was replaced. The car it was in would sit for weeks at a time without being started. It being a higher end car, it had something like 63 modules that all pulled a little amperage all the time for memory. The battery was huge but would go dead. We replaced it under warranty for the sake of customer satisfaction. Of course the car was back a couple of months later with the same thing. Since we had seen some problems with the AGM batteries in cold weather and cars that rarely got used, we replaced the battery with a regular flooded battery. We ate the cost of this battery because the warranty wouldn't cover a non factory replacement one. The flooded battery seemed to be more tollerant of the long periods of the vehicle sitting. So the battery in my tractor was only about 2 months old. It would have gone back to the supplier we got the flooded battery from as a core. So I provided a junk battery and got the new used one free. Since the tractor has no parasitic draw, the battery doesn't go dead even after sitting several weeks.

 

[Centerplate]

I have a set of batteries that gave me service for 14 years. ( a record for me). For many years I used a battery maintainer on the 1460 combine in the off season. I have about five of them I move to different equipment to keep the batteries freshly charged. If you have equipment that has a draw, you should disconnect the cables, but still use a maintainer. For me, a battery maintainer is cheaper than an AGM battery. Do what you think is best for you.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I've been hearing a lot about the newer AGM (acid glass mat) batteries. That's where they don't have "flooded" electrolyte like conventional batteries. Because all the acid is in a glass mat "sponge" between the plates. This has some advantages; such as faster charging, no acid leaks, no corrosion and last twice as long (or more). But most important (for farm machinery) they are much tougher in vibration and heat.

However a downside I've read (besides being higher priced) is that they are very sensitive to getting too much charge voltage. That anything over about 14 volts can damage them.

I have a Farmall H and an M, and also a IH 1420 combine. These are working machines that I farm with. And from what I've read about the AGM batteries, there would be definite advantages to having them on these machines. But I am wondering about the "sensitive to charging voltage" thing. My H and M have alternator conversions. I am wondering if my tractors and my 1420 combine charging systems can work with these AGM batteries? Or do you need a modern charging system that won't go over the 14 volt limit? Any advice appreciated!

The advantage of AGM.

More surface plate area in the same dimensions. Upgrade for longer key off power supply (stop start)
Types of AGM
Pure lead longer life
Alloy lead (recycled lead shorter life)

A better choice for a tractor EFB enhanced flooded battery. From what I can tell the most rugged battery out there takes a lick'n and keeps on tick'n. EFB is new to the states its picking up steam. The advantage it performs well at haft charge are lets say when it discharges it does not affect the construction of the plates.

The cost for both are not worth the advantage to me so your call. You have to be extremely careful when you charge them that does not play well in my environment. YMMV in my world its gotta go I don't have time to fiddle with it.

 

[sotxbill]

AGM batteries do last longer, but they do not dissipate heat as well as flooded batteries. Thus they cannot tolerate high charge loads. They are better for rough service since the glass mats between the plates tend to hold things in place so they cannot be shaken out of place.

I heard this about batteries. If you have 2 batteries, both the same physical size, get the one with the LOWEST Cold Cranking amps if you want the longest lasting battery. This may seem counter to our desire to get the most for our money. However it makes sense, because the only way to get more CCA in the same size battery is to have more plates. In order to get more plates, each plate has to be thinner and have less space between the plates. Thin plates are more fragile and more subject to damage from bumps and vibration. Thicker plates should last longer.

Except... they use the same size plates and plastic grid structure, just slide in every other plate is all. So there is more space between the plates, they are not thicker.... or.. if the put in half the plates and slide all of them into the first 4 slots, the spacing is still the same, just less total plates... Whats your guess.

 

[INCase]

AGM batteries do last longer, but they do not dissipate heat as well as flooded batteries. Thus they cannot tolerate high charge loads. They are better for rough service since the glass mats between the plates tend to hold things in place so they cannot be shaken out of place.

I heard this about batteries. If you have 2 batteries, both the same physical size, get the one with the LOWEST Cold Cranking amps if you want the longest lasting battery. This may seem counter to our desire to get the most for our money. However it makes sense, because the only way to get more CCA in the same size battery is to have more plates. In order to get more plates, each plate has to be thinner and have less space between the plates. Thin plates are more fragile and more subject to damage from bumps and vibration. Thicker plates should last longer.

my experience is they do NOT last longer. had 2 OEM glass matt batteries that did not last anywhere nearly as long as conventional batteries have.
supposedly they are better for all the demands from the extra electronic drain new cars have and especially those with auto-start/stop.

I haven't had much luck with LED bulbs (even some name brand but they are better) holding up for the supposed 10x longer life.

 

[4240 Turbo]

AGM batteries are also strongly recommended to be used with a smart charger. If you use a solid state charger I am in understanding that the charge will damage the battery, so the lowest charge setting is likely safer, furthermore a smart charger is designed to shut off most generally, and finally the agm was becoming more widespread useage due to batteries being installed and located in the passenger cabin of vehicles. such as certain kenworth had batteries inside cab under seat, a flooded cell battery can discharge dangerous gasses. This is a problem inside of a vehicle. Over charging and/or rapid recharge is warned to possibly cause battery to rupture or explode.

I was informed that for the additional cost that the agm was NOT an upgraded battery for any reason, and told this from the battery suppliers, automotive dealerships, heavy truck dealerships, and charging equipment suppliers. There is one charger that is fairly new to the scene that is an analog smart charger agm safe but not entirely computerized, offered by SOLAR (chlore automotive products) AGM is becoming more widespread due to the location of the batteries being where they can not have them vent or leak into passenger compartment.

Now, finally according to several new automotive manufacturers LOAD TESTING AGM batteries is unsafe, Prohibited, futile, and will void any and all warranties and guarantees in addition to any dealer technician attempting a load test on an AGM will be reprimanded. Conductance test ONLY. Hope this information was helpful, and the best decision can be acquired. Increased life was never a mention to me within the agm application.

 

[Hobo,NC]

AGM batteries are also strongly recommended to be used with a smart charger. If you use a solid state charger I am in understanding that the charge will damage the battery, so the lowest charge setting is likely safer, furthermore a smart charger is designed to shut off most generally, and finally the agm was becoming more widespread useage due to batteries being installed and located in the passenger cabin of vehicles. such as certain kenworth had batteries inside cab under seat, a flooded cell battery can discharge dangerous gasses. This is a problem inside of a vehicle. Over charging and/or rapid recharge is warned to possibly cause battery to rupture or explode.

I was informed that for the additional cost that the agm was NOT an upgraded battery for any reason, and told this from the battery suppliers, automotive dealerships, heavy truck dealerships, and charging equipment suppliers. There is one charger that is fairly new to the scene that is an analog smart charger agm safe but not entirely computerized, offered by SOLAR (chlore automotive products) AGM is becoming more widespread due to the location of the batteries being where they can not have them vent or leak into passenger compartment.

Now, finally according to several new automotive manufacturers LOAD TESTING AGM batteries is unsafe, Prohibited, futile, and will void any and all warranties and guarantees in addition to any dealer technician attempting a load test on an AGM will be reprimanded. Conductance test ONLY. Hope this information was helpful, and the best decision can be acquired. Increased life was never a mention to me within the agm application.

LOAD TESTING AGM batteries is unsafe

Its load tested every time you crank it is that unsafe ?. Its not much of an issue because the gold standard load testing a battery the tired and true test when all fails is slowing going the way of the Do Do bird. I find it interesting the manufactures of all those fancy testers tell you when all test fail load test it.

I'm all in on the charging issues but not the load test. If I made money off the test Equitment I am sure I could drum up some excesses as to why you should use my Equitment.

 

[4240 Turbo]

load testing can heat up the battery too fast, yes a starter motor loads the battery, however a healthy starter motor should not draw amperage similar to a carbon pile load tester. Maybe if you engage the starter for several minutes at a time... It's verified information. If you do not agree with these concepts or principles, become an instructor in the field and enlighten all of us... please. You would likely even be able to charge a fee for your expertise. I am familiar with the recommendations and the principles. And since we are nit picking It is actually... ABSORBED GLASS MAT, NOT acid glass mat. This goes beyond manufacturers and dealerships. There are large private fleets like CRH (oldcastle) following suit to the more sensitive AGM protocols, I see it regularly by obtaining specific multi thousand dollar jump start units and wheel chargers that are very sophisticated, and NOT load testing everything under the sun.

 

[HFJ]

interesting timing. a friend stores his side by side here. he came over to pick it up today. it has an AGM, which was dead flat. i have all styles of chargers, from the tiny cubes that take 3 days to charge to an Atek from the 80s that will push 30+ amps without blinking. i asked him if he was in a hurry and he he was. we put the atek on it. 15 minutes later he loaded up and drove away.

this is not an endorsement, just an observation.

 

[Keith Williams]

my experience is they do NOT last longer. had 2 OEM glass matt batteries that did not last anywhere nearly as long as conventional batteries have.
supposedly they are better for all the demands from the extra electronic drain new cars have and especially those with auto-start/stop.

I haven't had much luck with LED bulbs (even some name brand but they are better) holding up for the supposed 10x longer life.

We moved into a new to us house in 2018. I replaced all the bulbs with LED's. I have replaced 3 total bulbs in 6 years.
I am sold.
Keith

 

[JMOR]

For those seriously worried about too high charging voltage on AGM batteries, you can purchase the regulator for your alt (at least if GM10SI and CS units in various voltages. 13.2, 13,6, 14.2, 14.5,14.6, 14.8, etc.

 

[Hemmjo]

We moved into a new to us house in 2018. I replaced all the bulbs with LED's. I have replaced 3 total bulbs in 6 years.
I am sold.
Keith

I installed 18 bulbs in my barn 3 years ago. 6 are in storage section I very seldom enter. One or 2 times per month would be a lot. Six more are in a section I might enter 1 or 2 times a week, but often much less than that. When these bulbs are on it might be for 10-15 minutes at a time

The last sixI might turn on 4-5 times a week. They are never on more than an hour at a time.

I have replaced 4 of the 18 already.

I am nt sold on them.

 

[NDIHC]

LOAD TESTING AGM batteries is unsafe

Its load tested every time you crank it is that unsafe ?. Its not much of an issue because the gold standard load testing a battery the tired and true test when all fails is slowing going the way of the Do Do bird. I find it interesting the manufactures of all those fancy testers tell you when all test fail load test it.

I'm all in on the charging issues but not the load test. If I made money off the test Equitment I am sure I could drum up some excesses as to why you should use my Equitment.

In my book, there's never been a battery tester better than an old Sun VAT 40. But at work we have to use the approved equipment. Used to be the Midtronics GR8 but now it's the Midtronics DCA-8000. The manufacturer won't even let us have a load tester anymore. Well, not for warranty purposes anyway!