Another Case 530 Serial Number Issue

[Crinton]

This is copied in here from the Tractor and Farm Talk Forum.
I have a Case 530 with, guess what, no model or serial number because the piece of tin it was attached to went missing! I bought it as a 430 but soon identified it as a 530 by way of various components, fuel tank, carb, etc. From the IT Shop Manual (C-202 Page 74, Paragraph 189) I know it is an early model that will have a Serial Number below 8191147. The tractor has an Engine Number 341 S 09191. Assuming that this is the original engine number, does anyone out there have a way of connecting engine numbers to serial numbers? The tractor has an Eagle Hitch, standard 4 speed + reverse transmission, triple range and shuttle shift. Based on YT Serial Number Guide, I believe it has to be 1960 to 1962 with a serial number in the range 8160001 (the starting number for 1960) to 8191147. This serial number range covers several tractor models - 430, 530, 530B, 630, 730, 830, 930 and 1030 - I have no clue as to how they rationalize that! Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[Tgrasher]

Can't answer your question but brings a related question. Are engine numbers specific to that size of engine or are they assigned across all the engines like tractor serial numbers?

 

[Joe (Wa)]

The way it works. The 430 and 530 were built 1960-1969 at the same time. There are 5 models of 430 and 4 models of 530. When the tractor frame (430 or 530) was ready for an engine it got the appropriate engine for that model tractor out of a pile of those appropriate engines w/o regard to the individual engine serial nr. The engine may have been built over a 4-5 year or longer period, all with a dedicated serial nr that is chronologically useless in judging correct model year of the tractor. Engine serial nrs are provided in case a part(s) changes happen down the line.

Whichever tractor (430 or 530) was completed to the point of assigning a model nr/serial nr tag it was issued the next available serial number whether it be a model of 430 or a model of 530. I.E if the last tractor off the line was assigned serial nr 6144001 then the next tractor off the line would be asssigned 6144002 regardless whether a model of 430 or 530.

1960 6144001
1961 6162601
1962 8190001
1963 8208001
1964 8229001
1965 8253501
1966 8279001
1967 8306501
1968 8332101
1969 8356251

Early 430 & 530 ended after serial nr 8262800 which you can see is during the 1965 model year. That doesn't mean there wasn't some changes during the 1960 - 1965 model years.

You didn't describe the tractor except to write that it is shuttle with triple range. Take another look at that, shuttle is paired with dual range (direct & Low) providing 8 speeds forward and reverse, there is no reverse position in the 4 speed transmission. Triple range (low-direct-high) is paired with a hand clutch providing 12 speeds forward and 3 speeds in reverse. Look for a raised shift patterns on top of the transmission and on the torque tube cover. Shuttle lever is up on the left side of the torque tube cover across from the other lever that is on the cover. Hand clutch lever is near the bottom and left side of the torque tube housing in front of the foot clutch pedal.

You need to post some pics so we can make out details. Pics of each side and front and rear of the tractor, pic of foot clutch area, pic of dash, etc.

 

[Tgrasher]

Joe, I think he is confusing the hand clutch for a shuttle lever, not the first to do that. Like you said, pictures always help in giving advice on a tractor.

 

[Crinton]

Hey, thanks Joe and Tgrasher!
Joe, you have some different serial numbers from those I took from the YT S/N guide. Your thoughts about the way these tractors were built and the assignment of series type, serial numbers and engine assignment make a lot of sense based on my searching.
I have pictures and I can take more specific ones, and then I’ll forward them. Briefly for now, this has to be triple range; with dual range the shuttle shift lever enters the cover of the housing on the left side and the dual shifter is on the right side of the cover - at least that’s what I’ve learned from the shop manual. On this tractor, the range shifter is on the right side of the “range” cover and there is no lever on the left side of the cover. There is a long lever (hand clutch lever) on the left side of the torque tube, just ahead of the main foot clutch. This lever operates a multi-disc clutch that is located immediately ahead of the triple range inside ‘gearbox’. To be honest, this tractor has been in my workshop for a few years - I used it for raking hay last year but that is the only real use it has had since I got it as a bit of a wreck. After raking, I brought it back into the workshop with the thought of installing power steering. Why power steering? Because I had rigged up a front end loader on the tractor and the weight of the arms and the bucket made it extremely difficult to steer - even with the bucket detached (I had rebuilt the steering box as well); I also rearranged all the hydraulics! Now, this tractor is all painted up and ready for work, I hope. I refurbished it to be a working tractor and not a show piece; the tin for example is not all smooth and shiny and not all there. Even had to make up a new front grill. The original fancy dash unit was all rusted out so I made one up with the help of my machinist friend.
Back to the shuttle shift clutch - one of my last jobs was to tighten the clutch. So I removed the triple range cover to access the clutch, pull the two locking pins one at a time, rotate the shaft a/c-wise to tighten in the yoke (main clutch depressed), after half a turn, second pin dropped into place. In spite of trying all kinds of tricks, I could not get this second pin to come out more than about 1/32”. Much frustration! So, I left it alone thinking why do I need shuttle shift, never had it before! I replaced the cover - just have to make sure the shuttle shift lever remains pulled back in the released position, for regular forward motion. I thought the shifter positions were cast into the cover, double and triple checked, but this was not the case, couldn’t see it anywhere. I have to finally figure that out when the tractor is mobile. I never experimented when raking hay last year, too much going on. The shuttle shift lever presently requires a pull of 26 lbs to snap it over and this is not enough to engage the clutch, not being sure exactly how it worked I used it in both forward and back positions when raking and the tractor still went forward. If I recall correctly, the pull has to be between 45 and 60 lbs (I think I saw 70 lbs somewhere) and I’m nowhere near that.
This tractor has the option of disengaging the hydraulic pump by way of a little lever on the front end of the ”hydraulic” cover - what a game to get that off - and for various reasons I’ve done it 3 times after reassembly and painting! What a set up; my B275 is a much better arrangement.
Anyway, not to bore you… I’ll get some pictures together and add them to the thread. Thanks, again for your help.

 

[mEl]

You do not have a shuttle transmission, the LH lever is a multi disc hand clutch and should not move with the lever in the pulled back position and the tractor should move when the lever snaps ahead, if it is dragging hard enough to drive the tractor you have internal problems. If it were a shuttle transmission you would see a box with 2 synchronizers units, one for forward and one for reverse. also the shuttle lever if it were equipped that way would come out the LH side of the top cap opposite the HI- Lo lever as you described in your post, Pics would be nice.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Probably true Tg or maybe dual range with triple range. I didn't have time to post pics maybe tomorrow if he wants them.

In my rush I made a mistake in the engine serial nrs. The engine serial nr designates the engine configuration for parts ordering.

My 1956 310 148 cid engine serial nr is 110M03357, the 110 is the engine family, letter M designates the last modification to that engine family before it was mass produced, 03357 is the actual serial nr of that one block. I think the 312 may have a different engine family even though it has the 148 cid engine but all the 1956 & 1957 wfe 311's I checked started with 110M.

Can you check your 312 for me?

Likewise my 1959 311B 148 cid engine serial nr starts with 180R and all the 1958 & 1959 311B's I checked stared with the same 180.

I suspect that engine serial nr format carried over with the later tractors like the 430 & 530 and maybe later. The engine serial nr 341 S 09191 still isn't going to define the model year. The entire serial nr, or at least, the last 5 digits may be required to order some engine parts.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

I forgot to post the above last night when I logged out.

mEl is correct you described part of the hand clutch adjustment procedure and continue to call it a shuttle. The hand clutch over center snap measured at the top of the lever (under the knob) in the engaged position (pushed forward) is 40 to 60 lbs. If you only have 26 lbs over center snap do not work the tractor until the hand clutch is adjusted properly. At that low compression the discs will slip, get hot and warp so the clutch can not used for the intended purpose. In that case it would have to be locked up to operate the tractor or the discs replaced.

IT is a poor service manual, they try to cover multiple tractor models in the same number of pages that Case uses for one model. So a lot of procedures get shorten, partially described, or simply incorrect as written. later today or tomorrow I will post the hand clutch adjust procedures w/pics if someone else hasn't already done so.

Hand clutch:

The engine clutch (foot) engages the drive shaft that powers the PTO directly and also the triple range gear train and 4speed transmission via the hand clutch.

The operational function of the hand clutch is to engage/disengage the transmission for ground movement only. The PTO continues to run.

If you're mowing high grass or brush, if the mower becomes clogged up to the point of bogging down you can disengage the hand clutch, tractor ground travel stops and the mower continues to run to clear at PTO rpm. When mower is clear, engage the hand clutch and continue tractor ground travel and mowing.

 

[Crinton]

Thanks mEl and Joe for your posts. OK, accepted, I do not have a shuttle shift! I just looked back at the Case Operator’s Manual copy I got from Jensales and think now that I must have rushed through the operating controls section. I only saw mention of a shuttle shift and assumed that’s what I had. I didn’t see any mention of a hand clutch which is a pity because the lack of a live PTO function is what I was lamenting about this tractor. I hope I’ll be able to resurrect it!

Actually, in looking back at the operator’s manual, it struck me that none of the pictures in it showed the dash arrangement that came with the tractor. I also got a 1957 310 in the same deal and it had just a single all-in-one dash unit with tach, temp, oil pressure, ammeter, fuel level under one glass - completely rusted out, unfortunately. The 530 had an identical dash unit, also beyond redemption, if that helps in pinning down the year.

Thanks, again. Pictures will come, hopefully today.

 

[Crinton]

Looking back at manuals and thinking it over, I have to conclude that I’ve been a bit of a dumb cluck going down this shuttle shift rabbit hole. Sorry about my confusion, guys. Ah, well, have to press on - just hope it’s not going to be another tractor split job to get it right! I’m already looking forward to a new dual clutch on the B275!
Maybe I must have had the lever forward when I was using the hay rake because it shouldn’t have moved forward at all if the lever were pulled back. Cheers

 

[Crinton]

OK. so here are photos! I hope you don't think that I've butchered the tractor, I'm just trying to make it work for me and therefore made a few mods!

• I added an FEL, the arms and bucket were off an 8N I'd had for a while, arms and bucket were seriously straightened out and reinforced - the tractor had an old, small FEL probably used for clearing out manure and it was beaten up;
• There's a 3-way hydraulic valve to split the flow between the 3 pt. hitch and the FEL, somewhat as previously;
• As a result of a lowish hydraulic pressure I used biggish cylinders and had to add an external hydraulic tank to give more volume - unfortunately, this limited the turning circle for left turns;
• I did away with the original hydraulic valves - after having removed and reinstalled them 6 times, also tried good used ones - in the end, the problems I was having were the result of cross leakage between the stacked valves;
• There is a flat plate where the valves used to sit with a 1/2" pickup from the pump and a 1/2" return to the tank/reservoir;
• Oil passes from the pump through a Priority Flow Control Valve (Prince Mfrg - from Steiner IHS740 - with a pump flow of ~8 gpm in-house modifications to this valve were necessary, if you're aware of the valve you'll know what I'm talking about(!) - the excess oil from the PFCV goes to the control valves on the FEL right post;
• I fought with the Eagle Hitch on and off once too often and changed the system over as shown in the pics - needed to get a few special parts made to make the change; and
• The front grille was all smashed up so I had to get new 'doors" made.

I stripped and worked over the whole tractor but, of course, didn't take gear boxes or engine apart since all that checked out well. Yes, I missed out on the Hand Clutch, not even realizing what it did!! OK, the question now is (apart from the year and S/N of the tractor) how am I going to pull out that second clutch adjustment pin so I can make the adjustment - it seems to be stuck; does that pin body unscrew by any chance?
Appreciate your patience and all your advice - long retired but clearly still learning! (I'll have to do a separate post for the other pictures!)

 

[Crinton]

Here are the other pictures. I reduced the resolution.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Here are the other pictures. I reduced the resolution.

Kudos!!! you have put a lot of time and bucks into that tractor. Nice clean routing of new hydraulic lines, about the best that could be done. You see the missing transmission shift pattern just to the right of the shifter stick? The triple range shift pattern if it still exists will be on the torque tube cover under the battery. The hand clutch adjustment pins are positioned exactly as they should be, I'll explain that when I write the adjustment procedures in the morning. I didn't have time look at all your pics, you did a good picture posting job.

 

[Crinton]

Thanks, Joe. Look forward to hearing from you later.

 

[DRussell]

It might be too late now, but if the hydraulic tank you added is affecting the steering to the left, is there room to add the tank at the base of the loader arm on the right side of the tractor? I would think you would not want the steering limited in any way.

 

[DRussell]

Also, curious as to why you converted from the Eagle Hitch to the 3 point arms?

 

[Crinton]

Thanks, DRussell: It’s a bit late to move the tank now and, of course, I have thought about this since realizing the left steering issue. The key for that tank, its capacity and location, is to maintain the oil level conditions in the main torque tube reservoir since it augments that reservoir. I concluded that it was best to put up with the left turn limitations figuring that the majority of my turning is to the right. It’s not too limiting and I’ve guarded against wheel contact with the tank by using the end of piston travel in the cylinder as an end stop.
As to the 3 point hitch. I just found the rigid Eagle Hitch arms too difficult to line up, not being able to twist and turn as I once could! Last year, I gave up in a bit of a rage after trying to hitch this tractor up using the EH to my disc mower and that was the last straw hitch-wise!

BTW, ALL: Re. Shuttle shift, I did know that the lever on the left operated a clutch - my mistake was in assuming that it was a clutch that had to somehow operate the shuttle, not thinking and not seeing anywhere (at the time) that it provided live PTO!

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Thanks, Joe. Look forward to hearing from you later.

You might consider putting some support in this valve area. That is quite a bit of weight for the potential vibration and possible pull of the hoses.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

Slippage in the hand clutch can be caused by wear and lack of readjustment over the years. Slipping friction discs can get hot and warped to the point clutch adjustment is ineffective. The hand clutch feature and slippage can sometimes be eliminated creating a solid drive link by adjusting the clutch up to max that it can break over-center engaged and not using it.

Torque Tube cover: The cover is lifted with the shifter in neutral, a shifter rail may catch under the casing rim preventing the cover from lifting more than a 1/4 inch or so. Set it back down shift to different gear(s) and back to neutral and try lift again.

Pic 1 is a complete hand clutch assy. Note that nr 1 pin is down in an adjustment block locking slot, nr 2 pin is raised riding on the adjustment plate between two slots. Cheap scale works good has hook on the end for the lever knob and a handle on the other end for smooth pull on the lever.

Pic 2 Torque tube view cover off. If your hydraulic oil is clear enough you may be able to see or feel for the adjustment locking pins, if not, drain down the torque tube oil level some.

When adjusting use a scale to measure the force required to "snap" the clutch mechanism over-center, that force is 45 to 60 lbs as measured at the top of the lever right at the knob in the engaged direction.

This is how I adjust the hand clutch.
From the left side of the tractor, with the hand lever disengaged, turn the drum or input gear to locate and pull out the spring loaded pin that is engaged in a slot on the adjustment block and hold it out with left hand, turn the triple range input gear with right hand (CCW increase tension, CW decrease). The input gear will rotate about 10 degs and the other spring loaded pin will drop into a slot on the adjustment block and that will again marry the drum & input gear. Continue releasing the pin that is locking the adjustment block and turning the input gear to get the correct over-center snap force. Check over-center snap force each adjustment increment as the force is not linear and it is very easy to overshoot. Too tight, back off some and adjust up again.

After the adjustment there may be some minor tractor ground creep controlled easily with the brakes. That should go away if the clutch is used for short periods over time.

 

[Crinton]

Thanks, Joe. That’s exactly what I have. Your instructions are much clearer and that is the adjustment procedure I was following, with the foot clutch pedal held down using a tie-down strap with ratchet tensioner. That triple range cover will be coming off again this afternoon and I’ll be trying again. Previously, the one pin pulled out easily, rotated the shaft to tighten, second pin locked in and main shaft and clutch collar started turning together. Rotated clutch collar to bring second pin to an accessible location, pulled on it with needle nose pliers, gently at first, but it would not come out; applied more force, tried small vice-grips, even tried to lever it with a nail pulling bar!! It would not budge!! Tight location but doable. Now, a passing observation at the time, subject now to confirmation, but it did not seem to me that when I released the first pin that it stood proud as I would have expected, my recollection is that it seemed to go back to its original position. That seems wrong if Pin 2 is down and supposedly located in the hole; Pin 1 at least is spring loaded, Pin 2 seems to be but only based on the 1/32” - 1/16” that it came out. I have to check Pin 1 positioning very carefully. My oil level is down to just about half clutch collar level due to losses in all the recent steering faffing around and with the single-acting arm cylinders extended (yes, I should have had a double acting circuit - put that down for a future assignment once we’re all up and running). Any thoughts on this sticking Pin 2? It’s starting to smell like more work but I’m hoping not!

On the “overhanging” valves, yes, that is a concern and the one on the 3-pt circuit is potentially a similar problem. These valves are not meant to be unsupported, especially the 1/2”; the two you flagged are 3/8”. My implement quick connectors are also a bit vulnerable too. Another day - which may end up meaning that nothing will get done until something breaks!