Another cracked block - need your advice

[jbyrd]

Disclaimer: I have explored the archives extensively, ready multple opinions regarding welding, brazing, epoxy, black pepper, egg white, etc etc..

Can you gentlemen with many more years of experience than I look at the following photo and advise me how you would repair this? My concern is the crack goes 'up and over' the machined area of the block. Am I still going to have a problem if I JB weld it due the crack extending up and over. The location of the crack is on the rear portion of the block nearest the steering column.

Also I need your advice how to procede with the seller, who is a very honorable man. I spent 1200 for a tractor that needs TLC on the wheel bearings, seals, paint etc...but the motor has less than 15 hours on it. Now the block has a crack. Would you walk away from the deal and get your money back? or ask to pay less? I would be using this for light duty at on my small property and intend to restore. Thanks for any advice you would be willing to part with.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 13:10:37 04/21/10) Disclaimer: I have explored the archives extensively, ready multple opinions regarding welding, brazing, epoxy, black pepper, egg white, etc etc..

Can you gentlemen with many more years of experience than I look at the following photo and advise me how you would repair this? My concern is the crack goes 'up and over' the machined area of the block.

Also I need your advice how to procede with the seller, who is a very honorable man. I spent 1200 for a tractor that needs TLC on the wheel bearings, seals, paint etc...but the motor has less than 15 hours on it. Now the block has a crack. Would you walk away from the deal and get your money back? or ask to pay less? I would be using this for light duty at on my small property and intend to restore. Thanks for any advice you would be willing to part with.
quote]

IMO these are easily repaired - buy a used replacement.

TOH

 

[Fred in Mi.]

I just went threw with repairing a cracked block on my Ferggie, it actually had two and one went inside, an old Welder seen my block at a shop that was wondering what to do with it (stitching is a way) and he said he would weld it, what he did was took some solid flat washers and welded them on the corners of the cracks, the Motor was thern placed into an oven and heated up a bit and then he welded with 'Nickel rod", he took a long time on it and when done they heated the block up in the oven again and let slowly cool in the oven for a 24 hour period, it looks great and so far I haven t finished assembling the Motor but I have no fears of it leaking.
I was told not to worry about the inside because the cracks are on the water jacket of the block.
The oven is a good way for the weld not to separate due to that area being hot!and the rest of the block cold.
I hope this helps ya out, as you can read I m not the best at explaining..

Fred

 

[R Geiger]

In my opion, unless you had some sort of agreement on returning it if you found problems, i think you have a 1200 dollar tractor needing repairs.

 

[old]

If it where me I would probably see if I could get it for a bit less then find a block that is good and use the parts from the cracked block in the good block. But I do have a good block laying around so it would not be a big deal. You never know about a crack and what it might go into or where it might keep cracking to

 

[Dell (WA)]

Byrdee.......I'd JB-Weld itt. Vee the crack for more purchase and drill a stop-crack (1/8") at end of crack as shown. I'd worry about what is up under the cylinder head AFTER I JB'd it. It definitely is a "leaker" as shown.

I will admit thats a strange place for a crack but makes me think it was "hydraulic" cracked when PO didn't clean the block corner bolt-hole during the re-build. Its amazing what oil will do when squeezed by headbolt. Q-tips are cheap.

As to what to do with the "honorable seller". What is the rest of the tractor like, condition wize? Good ag-bar tires? Rusty tin? Quick'n'dirty paint job? What would a "good" tractor cost? $2000, then $1200 has probably already been discounted into asking price. Old tractor prices are "negotiable". What's it worth to you??? Start negotiating. .......Dell

 

[ZANE]

$1200 for an N isn't much. A deal is a deal around here.

I would grind it our a little and let it dry and fill it with JB weld or equivelant.

It could also be welded by a good welder using some of the newer cast iron welding rods in a stick welder. A few years ago I welded up the whole right rear corner that was broken off in the bolt hole and into the bolt hole for the exhaust port. Saw it recently and still holding with no leaks.
Zane

 

[Dan]

I am dealing with a crack in the same area on my '39 9N. I would have replaced it only it is a '39 and a '39 with a non-'39 engine is no good for a collectors item. I tried v-ing the crack with a die grinder, cleaned the area super good with brake cleaner, and applied several thin layers of JB Weld. I also fixed another crack by the welsch plugs like this. The one by the welsch plug holds fine, the one at the back of the block kept seeping. I finally had to mound so much JB Weld along the crack it looks bad before it stopped seeping.

My guess is because it wrapped around towards the #4 exhaust port the metal expanded faster in that area then the rest of the cracked areas and this causes it to not seal well using the JB Weld application. My guess again is a stronger solution like weld would hold...

Just my true experience on cracks in this area.

Dan

 

[jbyrd]

Thanks for all the great input. Drinking it all in now and will let you guys know how it turns out. As it stands now I'll try Dell's suggestion, drill the end of the crack to keep it from creeping, V it out and JB weld it and drive the dang thing.

 

[Ken(Ark)]

(quoted from post at 10:10:37 04/21/10)

but the motor has less than 15 hours on it.

using this for light duty at on my small property and intend to restore.

Thats a small crack .

I would not use bars leak or powered copper/aluminum as I believe that those types fill up water passages with solids when they settle . I have seen blocks (V-8's) that had solids built up to the mid way level of the freeze plugs which cant be good for the cooling system .

I would use K&D block sealer or liquid glass , which mix with the water and leave a thin epoxy like coating inside when the water is drained per the instructions . This mixture also penetrates the crack as it is leaking to form a bond there too . You must drain the water and let it dry out and cure for 24 hrs to work .

I have a 2N that had a small leak like that . I got it to operating temp and welded it with a wire fed flux core welder (while I left the motor running) I started at the top and made a spot weld 1/4 in diameter and stopped to let it cool for a few seconds . Then moved down and made a new spot half covering the first weld , etc ,etc ,etc .

I didn't have any block sealer and the welder was out already from patching up the bush hog . I weld cast iron components on iron work with a mig welder without problems . Yes sometimes they do crack but the key is dont apply lots of heat for long periods of time . I welded a couple dozen cast iron post caps this week . You just cant make a long pretty weld on cold cast .

I would not want to do it this way on a 39 block but a workin rig is another story . Thats my 3 1/4 cents - Ken(Ark)

 

[Hobo,NC]

If you are stuck with it fix are replace,,, if you can get your money back take the money....

WARNING all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution

 

[Ultradog MN]

You do know Hobo that wire feeding that block was the worst kind of cobbling. Since we all know it should have had some fancy arse casticle welding done to do it right.
But I know that stitching it together such as you did and adding a bit of pucky to the outside will make the tractor go. Are we looking for years of cheap HP or a sphinterely correct fix?
I would cobble it the best way like you did. Though I would V it a bit and use rod. If it didn't hold? well a block can be had for a couple hundred $.
Thirteen hours on the engine did you say?
I would drive it like I stole it. Knowing I'm on borrowed time. If it breaks, slide the sleeves and pistons out of this one into a new block. Easy.
You might get lucky though. A little stiching, a little pucky and get 2 dozen more years out of it.

 

[Matt L]

Get some cast iron pins and pin the block. Can make it look like it never happened.

 

[NOXJohn]

Most likely that crack runs into the flat top of the block mating surface with the head. If so I think that is a death sentence. Drill and JB weld it but do not put very much money into any repair. I had one like that that I played with repairs and ran for 5-6 years. I replaced the block when I rebuilt the engine. If it runs OK, I would patch it up and run it until it dies or you feel like replacing the block and rebuilding the engine.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 02:14:13 04/22/10) You do know Hobo that wire feeding that block was the worst kind of cobbling. Since we all know it should have had some fancy arse casticle welding done to do it right.
But I know that stitching it together such as you did and adding a bit of pucky to the outside will make the tractor go. Are we looking for years of cheap HP or a sphinterely correct fix?
I would cobble it the best way like you did. Though I would V it a bit and use rod. If it didn't hold? well a block can be had for a couple hundred $.
Thirteen hours on the engine did you say?
I would drive it like I stole it. Knowing I'm on borrowed time. If it breaks, slide the sleeves and pistons out of this one into a new block. Easy.
You might get lucky though. A little stiching, a little pucky and get 2 dozen more years out of it.

I don't sew up cracks in blocks,,, do not need the headake,,, I replace them,,, are send them away