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Another I need help post !!

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indianamac

Member
Hey All,

I have used the search on here to try to avoid asking for help. I have read and re-read any post I could find. I have searched google, other tractor forums and watched a guy on Youtube, who had a document from a guy on how to properly time John Deere 2 cylinder tractors. I have a 1929 John Deere "D" tractor that refuses to pop or fire, no matter what I do.

You might ask what have I done already ?

I have purchased a newly rebuilt carb, newly rebuilt mag. I have put his thing on TDC according to the timing mark on the flywheel (L.H. RETARD), confirmed firing order (#1 firing on compression). It will blow fuel out of the petcock cup, like a spitting cobra, but the spark plug is always dry when I remove it, like it is not firing ?? I have good fuel in the tank and prior to buying the rebuilt parts and putting in new Autolite plugs, I cleaned the gas tank of any and all debris. My hands are sore and my back is aching from messing with this ol'beast. I have to omit that I do cuss at her, so maybe she's retaliating for that ? Anyways, I am really at my wits end with it and am breaking down and coming on here for some helpful ideas. My next step is start tearing her down and investigating the issue, but if I could get her to run again, all I want to do is drive her as is. I am not looking to restore her at this time. Sorry for the long post, but I am truly at a loss. Thanks
 
Maybe not much help, but try towing it to start....might help with a stronger
impulse spark from the magneto.
Ben


...and it's easier on your back!
 
How did you do as per your below comment????

I have put his thing on TDC according to the timing mark on the flywheel (L.H. RETARD), confirmed firing order (#1 firing on compression).

Please share with us ...did you remove the # 1 SPARK PLUG to ensure you were on compression stroke and not Exhaust stroke?

Bob...Owner JD styled D's.........
 
first thing i would do is take the plugs out hook them up to the wires turn the engine over and make sure the plugs are firing if you seeing spark at the plug then check make sure your on compression also make sure that you have a good ground on the mag. and that the implus coupler is working in your mag. when i was young we had a old D some time a half turn it fire up and some time i seem like it take dad half day get it started between that and the old ih mower that had to be mounted to the axle on the farmall c we had i learned lot cuss words and we also had a w series d motor on a irrigation pump that sometime start sometime it like just blow that sucker up
 
(reply to post at 22:14:38 03/24/21)
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Ok Bob,

I respond to you last.

I pulled no.#1 plug. held my finger over the plug hole and spun the flywheel until it was building pressure and stopped when the pressure dissipated (NOT SUCKING). I then loosened the mag coupling and tripped the mag lug by hand, until it sparked the top spark plug wire, coming from the Wico C mag to no.#1 spark plug. I then re-tightened the coupling, with the mag lugs still in the horizontal position, re-installed plugs and no fire still. I can not find a clear explanation anywhere, that tells me how to insure TDC on these horizontal 2 cylinders, without removing the head. It's not like a car engine, where I could put a dowel rod in and gauge TDC that way. I hope you may be able to tell me the proper way to achieve true TDC. I have been looking for a "D" guy and I think you are him !!! Thanks for responding And Thank You to anyone who has/ or will respond with a suggestion !!!
 

Indiana.. TRUE TDC is when the #1 piston(flywheel side) is at its top of the compression stroke. I'm sure you already knew that. On my 35 B right away I noticed the flywheel was put wrong by the previous ding dong that had no idea what he was doing. There is a screw on mine that had to fit in a special notch on the flywheel. Somehow he got in on wrong. It was an easy fix to put it on right. I took a pic of mine at TDC and marked it with a white marker on flywheel and crankcase. I put mine on TDC Compession stroke and mount mag and rotate it all the way forward, then rotate engine over and come up on the TDC mark, stop there and go to other side and slowly rotate mag back ccw until it snaps. You should be good to go. Good Luck and if I need to drive to Indiana I will, I'll be coming from Oregon.

mvphoto72282.jpg
 
(reply to post at 17:29:42 03/25/21)
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Hey Nash,

If your coming through Indiana, hell yeah stop by. I have done exactly as you are saying and it will not fire. I have the L.H. Retard mark on the flywheel, lined up with the line on the side plate and on compression stroke. This thing will not even pop ! I had it running last year, briefly. The last time it fired, it would run for a few seconds then die. It acted as if the carb was not letting fuel thru. I readjusted the float, re-installed and nothing. Spark plugs were not wet, so no flooding. Winter came and it has set. Being frustrated, I recently purchased the rebuilt carb and mag, thinking that would be two potential problems eliminated. I have tried before TDC, after TDC. I have jacked with the mag and timing, trying to figure this out. I even thought, maybe it has been messed with before and someone has the flywheel off a spline or two ! I don't want to, but I am starting to think its time to start tearing it down. Maybe look at the govenor to cam timing ?? Do you know a way to confirm TDC other than the timing marks, just in case someone has installed the flywhell wrong on my "D" ? I have compression, fire and fuel. Timing marks are lined, as yours, on TDC (compression stroke). I have already tried everything that has been suggested to me so far. I am determined to win this battle with her. She has potential and I believe she will run. I feel like I'm over looking something simple or maybe these models are just that peculiar ??? If I had a belt, my 45' "B" would turn her over by myself and I would atleast know if she'll run again. You know where I can aquire a belt by chance ?
 

Mine says LH Impulse on the flywheel. Does yours say LH Retard? Take some pics of your setup. I'd like to see it
 
If it is timed 180 off you should get a backfire out the muffler the whole neighborhood will hear but it sounds like you do have it right.

Here is an odd one I ran into the other day on a 60. The distributor rotor was cracked and the spark was going down through the rotor and into the distributor shaft instead of out into the lug in the distributor cap. I know this 60 has a distributor and yours is a mag but they both have rotors. I about had my hair pulled out until I found it. I just assumed the rotor was good because the top and side terminals looked good.
 
I think I would put on a compression gauge and see what it reads. The fact you have air coming out of the plug hole or the compression relief doesn't necessarily mean you are building adequate compression. It is a quick test and if nothing else, you know where you stand on that. Remember, when troubleshooting, being able to rule things out is an important part of the process.
 
Good day indianamac.......

May I ask you, why you believe the # 1 Piston has to be on TOP DEAD CENTER of compression stroke ????

I have personally owned and worked on 2 cylinder gasoline JD's that specifically state to set # 1 cylinder on the COMPRESSION stroke .... Stop Flywheel when CAST MARK on side of crankcase aligns with LEFT HAND LH IMPULSE signature on Flywheel.. Then set MAG so as IMPULSE trips aligned with # 1 spark plug..
I sent you a picture of a reprint of the early JD Ds'....as per above...

To be setting # 1 Piston at TDC..........???????
Bob..
 
(reply to post at 15:42:11 03/27/21)
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Hi Bob,

Isn't at TDC when the #1 piston should fire ? Are you saying that the mag should fire right at or during compression ? I have the reprint service manual for the John Deere D. On page #13 in that manual, it states to :"turn engine in direction it runs, to end of compression stroke on left-hand cylinder with mark on fly-wheel---"L.H. RET.SPK." in line with arrow on spline shaft cover." That is where I got the idea that it has to be on TDC. Am I reading it the wrong way ?? If so, at what point is ignition supposed to occur ? Sometime during compression, during compression or at the end of compression ?
 
From your posting....turn engine in direction it runs, to end of compression stroke on left-hand cylinder with mark on fly-wheel---L.H. RET.SPK. in line with arrow on spline shaft cover

indianamac...Obviously I HAVE NEVER set a MAG on a VINTAGE JD D to L.H. RET.SPK.
I shall follow this posting and learn how to set a MAG on a JD D to L.H. RET.SPK

I have never set a MAG on any JD Tractor built before 1937........

Bob..
 
(reply to post at 22:04:40 03/27/21)
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Thanks for all the info Bob.

I have set the timing on a JD D more times than I care to !! I just wish one of the times would have been right.

Maybe its time to tear it apart and start from scratch !! Or scrap it out !!! (just kidding)
 
(reply to post at 19:10:09 04/03/21)
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Oh no ! Mine fired today and won't come off high idle. Damn flywheel started sliding off the crankshaft. Had to slide it back into place and re-align the oil seal ring. You "D" guys know what I'm talking about. This thing had a slipping rotor button, that was throwing timing way out of whack. Once that was fixed, damn thing fired and ran at high RPM's. Throttle spring way too tight and had to back off two holes. (Again, you real "D" guys know what I'm talking about). Oh man, my John Deere mechanic and I, dumped like 5 gallons of gas in the priming cups to get the thing to fire. I see now why those that don't own a "D" model tractor this old, can even begin to explain how to diagnose or fix these tractors. They are not like your "A's" and "B's". These things are extraordinary and really have their own character. Once we get her to idle down, man I will be cruising the neighborhood with the Grandkids in tow !! Thanks to my Brother !!! I really appreciate you sharing you and your Dad's wisdom and getting the old "D" to fire again. You just kind of have to go back thru the theory of operations sometimes, in order to figure these things out. Now, If we can get her to calm down and idle, we'll be cruising !!! Wow, this has been a great day !! Happy Easter everyone !
 
(reply to post at 19:10:09 04/03/21)
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Hey Nash,

That's a great sounding tractor. Is that you in the video ? If that's yours, congratulations !! You probably went thru some of the same steps that we went thru yesterday, in order to get her to run. Mine ain't far from sounding like that. A few more tweaks and I should be there. Thanks for posting the video.
 

Hey Nash,

That's a great sounding tractor. Is that you in the video ? If that's yours, congratulations !! You probably went thru some of the same steps that we went thru yesterday, in order to get her to run. Mine ain't far from sounding like that. A few more tweaks and I should be there. Thanks for posting the video.[/quote]

Nope that's not mine. It's just a Youtube i found searching for a 1929 John Deere D tractor.

Any progress on yours yet??
 
(reply to post at 08:05:18 04/08/21)
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None since Saturday. At least it runs now, it just won't stay running. I am going to check the float level and see if it is right. It runs on half choke, at high rpms and won't idle down and stay running.

I'll take it though, cause like I said, at least it will run now.

I talked to a fellow the other day that said his dad had an early "D" and that if you didn't keep it good and tuned, that it was a bear to get started and keep running. He told me the carbs can be fussy. He also told me that these early "D's" are not like your "A's" and "B's". I asked why and he said they just ain't ! He said for example, what amount of fuel that will flood and "A" or "B" for a week, is the exact amount that the "D's" like, when trying to get them started. He said they used to haul around priming cans of gas for these tractors, back in the day and that they usually did not shut them off till the end of the day. He said that your real good "D" guys know the in's and out's of these beast. I however, am not one of those real good "D" guys !!! I'm just a guy that owns a "D", but I am learning !! I have a 1945 "B" hand start and I know that if I poured as much fuel into it as we had to, in order to get my "D" started, it would not have never started for me, probably for a week !!

Thanks Nash, for replying to my thread. Also, Thanks to everyone of you that have replied, shared your knowledge and tried to help me out !! I really appreciate the input and it's nice to know that there still exist people in this crazy world that we live in, who are still willing to help people out when needed.

I'll keep you all posted when something new happens. Like I have said before though, I work a lot and only have a minimal amount of time to dedicate to the "D" right now.
 
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