Another M Timing Issue

[Olyj1947]

Last fall I did a complete engine overhaul on a'41 M. Timed it to TDC with 20 degrees at full throttle . Idle it down and the timing is 2 degrees before TDC and 22 degrees at full throttle which causes the engine to 'kick back' when you restart it. It is a magneto engine with a distributor conversion and electronic ignition.
Any ideas on what is worn out? Thank you!

 

[rustred]

Last fall I did a complete engine overhaul on a'41 M. Timed it to TDC with 20 degrees at full throttle . Idle it down and the timing is 2 degrees before TDC and 22 degrees at full throttle which causes the engine to 'kick back' when you restart it. It is a magneto engine with a distributor conversion and electronic ignition.
Any ideas on what is worn out? Thank you!

you have to make sure the weights are free and lubed and not worn, very important .most times they are gummed up from lack of maintenance, and are sticky, idle is 400 rpm so make sure you are not checking it a higher rpm.

 

[560Dennis]

Flat top or domed pistons ?

 

[Olyj1947]

you have to make sure the weights are free and lubed and not worn, very important .most times they are gummed up from lack of maintenance, and are sticky, idle is 400 rpm so make sure you are not checking it a higher rpm.

I'll take it apart this weekend and check the innards out. I believe my idle to be a little faster than 400 RPM but I'll check that as well.Thank you very much!

 

[Olyj1947]

Flat top or domed pistons ?

I purchased a complete over haul kit here on YT. And they are the domed aluminum pistons in the kit. I do have a partial OE flat top set of pistons , sleeves, rings and wrist pins if you are interested. $40 Thank you!

 

[Powered By IH]

I purchased a complete over haul kit here on YT. And they are the domed aluminum pistons in the kit. I do have a partial OE flat top set of pistons , sleeves, rings and wrist pins if you are interested. $40 Thank you!

I don't think he's asking to buy them (I could be wrong though).
I think he's saying the domed pistons have slightly different timing degrees but I'm not completely sure on that.

 

[560Dennis]

Put timing light on engine when it s warm ,where is the advance when kick back you mentioned ?
As mentioned at the crank the advance spring should be holding to spark advance after top dead centers that has to be fixed.
What octane fuel are you using? what heat range plugs ,too hot plug is pre ignition warmed up?
Some things I thought of from what is mentioned.

 

[Olyj1947]

Put timing light on engine when it s warm ,where is the advance when kick back you mentioned ?
As mentioned at the crank the advance spring should be holding to spark advance after top dead centers that has to be fixed.
What octane fuel are you using? what heat range plugs ,too hot plug is pre ignition warmed up?
Some things I thought of from what is mentioned.

Cenex leaded 87 octane. I will check the plugs. I will have help this weekend! It's getting over my head! Thank you!

 

[gbsmith]

are you hand cranking it or using the starter?

 

[Olyj1947]

are you hand cranking it or using the starter?

Starter

 

[Olyj1947]

I pulled the distributor and disasembled it. The weights are free, clean and appear not worn but the springs are out of shape and one does not have the tension the other has. But I cannot find springs any where. It is a Deco 114111 vertical for a Farmall M. Does anyone have a part number and a company> Thank you!!!

 

[gbsmith]

my still be available in aftermarket kits at your local parts house, you will have to match them up to the ones you have, this company should be able to help,The Brillman Company https://www.brillman.com
as mentioned earlier make sure the advance moves freely, dome piston type uses a different static timing IRC some of the front pulleys were remarked for this but i don't remember the difference. are you using a 12v or 6 volt battery, reason i asked daddy's never would crank good on 6v with dome pistons about 3 turns then it was over, it would continue to just grunt the engine over even with new battery largest one we could find , new 2/0 cables and starter similar to a timing issue, 12 volt system solved that issue.

 

[gbsmith]

sorry about the attachments don't know how that happened

 

[Olyj1947]

my still be available in aftermarket kits at your local parts house, you will have to match them up to the ones you have, this company should be able to help,The Brillman Company https://www.brillman.com
as mentioned earlier make sure the advance moves freely, dome piston type uses a different static timing IRC some of the front pulleys were remarked for this but i don't remember the difference. are you using a 12v or 6 volt battery, reason i asked daddy's never would crank good on 6v with dome pistons about 3 turns then it was over, it would continue to just grunt the engine over even with new battery largest one we could find , new 2/0 cables and starter similar to a timing issue, 12 volt system solved that issue.

We could not find them on Brillmans web site.It has a 12 volt system with aluminum dome pistons.We did find them on McDonald's web site and ordered the parts there. Thank you!

 

[used red MN]

We could not find them on Brillmans web site.It has a 12 volt system with aluminum dome pistons.We did find them on McDonald's web site and ordered the parts there. Thank you!

Did you try to call them? Sometimes not every part a company can get or has to offer is listed on their website.

 

[Olyj1947]

Did you try to call them? Sometimes not every part a company can get or has to offer is listed on their website.

On Sunday, I found McDonald's web site and ordered what I needed plus a few other parts that were shown. Supposed to be delivered tomorrow

 

[Duner Wi]

I don't think he's asking to buy them (I could be wrong though).
I think he's saying the domed pistons have slightly different timing degrees but I'm not completely sure on that.

I know IHFirecrater pistons needed less timing advance than 1947 pistons.

 

[Olyj1947]

Here's an update on my Farmall M. The distributor springs did the trick! Settled for 500 RPM and TDC for timing. Plenty of power!
Not to bad for a $645 parts tractor sold at public action 15 years a go and a 9 year search for after market parts pus a lot of help from 2 retired IH technicians and and a current full time repair shop! But best of all are the suggestions from you guys on YT! Thank you so much! If you are ever in West Central Iowa along I 80, look me up! Thank you again, Olyj1947

 

[rustred]

And that is the reason for 400 rpm. When these tractors are worked hard and you shut them down they will run on when the idle is too high. And of course idle them for a few minutes to cool down. Properly tuned they run slower than 400 also.