Another thread on 800 Diesel heads

[CasebyCaseMN]

Hello all,
Finally had some time to return to the Case 800 diesel that I am in the process of overhauling. Today I pulled a sticky intake valve and found this under the valve. The valve was just sticky from old oil that had solidified on the valve stem, guide and valve looked pretty good. I was already planning on taking it to a shop, but I now have some questions as to the head. The valves are recessed very far into the head, and I am aware that they should be flush with the deck. From the pictures, is the valve seat ground into the head or has this one had inserts installed? Also, the crack in the seat/head is worrying to me, is this fixable? I know that coolant was in the oil before the rebuild, but the coolant gallery on the left side of the block was definitely cracked so I know coolant was getting in there.
Yes, the heads are in need of a good clean.
Thanks,
Al
Also, Jon F MN, you said that there might be a guy near Pine City who rebuilds these? Do you have his contact info? Thank you very much.

 

[Dieseltech]

Some ORIGINAL heads never used hardened seats on the intake valves, but they can be field installed with the right equipment. I'm lucky, my head repair guy is only eight miles away that installs new seat on the heads I have apart.

 

[casecollectorsc]

Have the heads magna fluxed to check for cracks. Don't look pitted so probably not getting coolant in the combustion chamber.

 

[jon f mn]

Those look like seats but they are very deep, must not have started good. I will ask my guy if he is interested, but his wife recently passed so he may not do them anymore. I know he is in Canada fishing right now, but I will text him and ask.

 

[CasebyCaseMN]

Thank you very much Jon. My condolences to the fellow.
I can't say wether or not it was hard starting, but it did have 1 1/4'' sleeves and pistons instead of the factory 1 1/8". Could this increase in displacement make up for the volume added to cylinder by the recessed valve? Just thinking that the volume of the 1 1/4" piston at the bottom of the stoke would be greater but gets compressed to roughly the same volume at TDC. Maybe not enough to account for the deep recession though.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@CasebyCaseMN you are pretty correct in your assumption about the displacement difference, we had 2 800's, one with the ambac pump and one with the inline, both had complete overhauls and properly setup heads, the one with the ambac pump had 4 1/4 bore the other was standard, that ambac one started 100 times easier than the other!

 

[John Saeli]

@CasebyCaseMN you are pretty correct in your assumption about the displacement difference, we had 2 800's, one with the ambac pump and one with the inline, both had complete overhauls and properly setup heads, the one with the ambac pump had 4 1/4 bore the other was standard, that ambac one started 100 times easier than the other!

Bore and Pump have nothing to do w/ starting. Worn rings, sleeves, injectors, actually worn anything will all affect starting. Everything new installed correctly, regardless of bore, and VALVES PROPERLY SET & SEATED, 2 - Group 30 or 31 Batteries, and she will start instantly. 40 degrees in 5 seconds, and no heat.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

I would tend to agree John, but for some reason, that one we have with the rotary pump and big bore always starts better than the one with standard bore and inline pump, both were full out of frame overhauled, about 2 years apart, pumps and injectors done by a very good shop, heads done by the same guy to the same specs, starters gone through by a good shop (He passed now unfortunately) new cables on both and new batteries and that one would always start when the other would need a wiff of womp womp juice, I wish I could explain it, I'm sure not trying to argue either. The only other difference between the two was the rotary pump had the autolite starter and the inline had delco, even put the inline on 24 volt, with a reman starter and still the same! was very odd, we sold the inline one a couple years ago but the guy that has it now is still baffled by why it starts harder than the one we have with the rotary pump. we did a full overhaul on the inline pump one again when we repainted and sold it and it was still the same, I really have no idea

 

[jon f mn]

I would tend to agree John, but for some reason, that one we have with the rotary pump and big bore always starts better than the one with standard bore and inline pump, both were full out of frame overhauled, about 2 years apart, pumps and injectors done by a very good shop, heads done by the same guy to the same specs, starters gone through by a good shop (He passed now unfortunately) new cables on both and new batteries and that one would always start when the other would need a wiff of womp womp juice, I wish I could explain it, I'm sure not trying to argue either. The only other difference between the two was the rotary pump had the autolite starter and the inline had delco, even put the inline on 24 volt, with a reman starter and still the same! was very odd, we sold the inline one a couple years ago but the guy that has it now is still baffled by why it starts harder than the one we have with the rotary pump. we did a full overhaul on the inline pump one again when we repainted and sold it and it was still the same, I really have no idea

I have 3 very similar engines here and have 3 very different results. 2 301 diesels and my 451 in my 1030. All the same pistons and heads and all the heads done by the same guy to the same specs. The 1030 is the worst and will only start unassisted down to maybe 40deg. The 830 is better and will start unassisted to 30 or less. The 301 from a combine that I put in my 400 is best and will start at temps below 20deg with no help. The 830 will start down to zero with the manifold heater. The 400 doesn't have a manifold heater because I had to modify the manifold to get it to fit, but just the smallest whiff of either and she fires right up even at well below zero temps. The 1030 takes the longest the clear up too. All have rebuilt pumps and injectors too.

 

[cumminstinkerer]

@jon f mn my 1030 is bad too, it is way better after I put the new starter and cables on it, but like yours at 40 you might as well give her a shot of the womp womp juice, that dang 800 with the rotary pump and big bore will fire down to almost zero with no womp womp juice, none of ours have manifold heaters on them, either broken or never had

 

[jon f mn]

My head guy is back from vacation and said he will do your heads. I sent you a message too

 

[Don Rudolph]

@jon f mn my 1030 is bad too, it is way better after I put the new starter and cables on it, but like yours at 40 you might as well give her a shot of the womp womp juice, that dang 800 with the rotary pump and big bore will fire down to almost zero with no womp womp juice, none of ours have manifold heaters on them, either broken or never had

My 1030 is bad too. If you walk past it with a Sno Cone, it won't start. LOL Thank God it has a working manifold heater. The well used engine in the 400 starts like a dream.