Auto paint curing and car washing question

[bc]

Hello. Got two vehicles in the auto body shop. The Subaru had tree limb damage from a wind storm with damage on a door, hood, and rear quarter panel which we picked up yesterday. Hit a coyote with the Prius just over a week ago and it will end up with new paint on the front clip, both fenders, a door, and the hood.

We have memberships with Club car wash that uses those side spinning brushes and the sliding, hanging felt type ribbons that drag over the top of the vehicle. I am considering to quit using them as I think they may do more harm than good anyway but that is a different question. Switching to a brushless spray would be the next choice and what I'll do until the new paint cures.

Question is how long does it take for automotive paint to cure before going through a brush car wash? Thanks.

 

[Stephen Newell]

I wouldn't do anything but hand wash any new paint before it was a month old. Most any new paint from oil based enamels to lacquer to urethane it takes a month to fully cure. If it was a baked on finish you would be good to go right away.

 

[JD Dave]

Depends on what paint was used. If it was a high quality urethane with hardener, it's probably cured as we speak. But, that being said, just don't wash it for a few weeks. Longer is better.

 

[bc]

Not baked for sure. They are a state farm approved body shop so I assume they use good paint and hardener.

 

[Goose]

Not baked for sure. They are a state farm approved body shop so I assume they use good paint and hardener.

From my experience with State Farm in the auto body business, I'll have to disagree on that. State Farm will probably only authorize the cheapest.

Hate to be negative, but that's been my experience.

 

[bc]

Thanks. I'll ask what paint they used when Icall next. When I checked on the prius it was waiting on parts but about to go to paint. I looked and noticed they didn't fix a crease in the right fender and the right headlight had a broken bracket. Revised estimate of over 6 grand for hitting a coyote and another week to fix the whole front end and driver door.

 

[glennster]

speaking as a shop owner, all our refinish work is done in our down draft booth and baked. after cooldown, we assemble the next day, hand wash and deliver. most all shops that i know of in my area have made the switch to water born paint. we use ppg enviorobase. its not cheap by any means. if you shoot a sub par product and get a failure, you as a shop have to eat the re work. wait a week and you should be good to go if the car went thru a bake cycle in the booth.

 

[bc]

I walked back to the back of the shop one day when they were spraying the Subaru. Paint booth in the corner and 2 sides were draped plastic on a rail like a shower curtain. No heating equipment around. Saw a front bumper and a couple other parts on stands in the main bay drying.

I had asked the shop foreman about not using Club car wash and he said to let it cure for 6 months if it was his.

 

[bc]

speaking as a shop owner, all our refinish work is done in our down draft booth and baked. after cooldown, we assemble the next day, hand wash and deliver. most all shops that i know of in my area have made the switch to water born paint. we use ppg enviorobase. its not cheap by any means. if you shoot a sub par product and get a failure, you as a shop have to eat the re work. wait a week and you should be good to go if the car went thru a bake cycle in the booth.

What happened to the good old days when I could get some paint from Napa, some sandpaper, and repaint the 57 chevy with a spray gun in the garage? Then polish it up to a shine with turtle wax. Seems like the change to clear coat to save on paint just made it worse.

 

[bc]

Stopped at the body shop today. Prius was being prepped for paint. Talked to the painter. They use Sikkens water based paint and they have a Blowtherm USA Ultra 2000 paint booth that bakes on the paint. Said Sikkens recommends 30 days to cure before using brushes on it which the painter said not to use because the brushes pick up dirt, etc.

Said it was a 2 stage paint job. 1 to 2 coats of color that is blow dried between coats till it looks good all over. If not then another coat blow dried. Then a drop coat is added, whatever that is, to even out the color. Then 2 coats of clear coat.

Took the door panel, glass, and mirror of the door so the paint doesn't leave an edge that can peel.

Said some could have another stage or 2 to add pearls or some metallics to the paint.

Said some cars could take from 2 to 8 coats of paint before being done.

Seems to me that the painter should be the highest paid person there.

Maybe Glennster can elaborate on the process.

 

[glennster]

Sikkens is a good product. the blowtherm is where color is applied, and when dry, the clears are then applied. the area with the curtain is a prep station where sanding and priming is done. it has a dust collection systems. the spray booth will either have a natural gas or propane main burner. my booth is natural gas. i have a 3 inch high pressure gas line feeding the 1.5 million btu burner. there is a prefilter on the air intake side, then the main burner, then another set of filters in the ceiling of the booth, into the spray area. under the grating on the floor is another set of filters to remove and overspray or dust. the filtered air is the exhausted outside. my booth has a 10hp 3 phase motor on the intake side, and another 10 hp 3 phase motor on the exhaust stack.. the exhaust filters are 98% efficient. the booth system is a balanced positive pressure system to avoid any dust infiltration in the spray area. we bake at around 140 degrees f, but our booth is capable of 170. it is very expensive to run the booth.

 

[Dingo3]

From my experience with State Farm in the auto body business, I'll have to disagree on that. State Farm will probably only authorize the cheapest.

Hate to be negative, but that's been my experience.

I was able to take my car to the shop of my choice. They paid up no problem. This was about two years ago.

 

[bc]

I was able to take my car to the shop of my choice. They paid up no problem. This was about two years ago.

I could of but didn't really have a particular one to go to that i knew of. Used them before and they were ok.

 

[bc]

Sikkens is a good product. the blowtherm is where color is applied, and when dry, the clears are then applied. the area with the curtain is a prep station where sanding and priming is done. it has a dust collection systems. the spray booth will either have a natural gas or propane main burner. my booth is natural gas. i have a 3 inch high pressure gas line feeding the 1.5 million btu burner. there is a prefilter on the air intake side, then the main burner, then another set of filters in the ceiling of the booth, into the spray area. under the grating on the floor is another set of filters to remove and overspray or dust. the filtered air is the exhausted outside. my booth has a 10hp 3 phase motor on the intake side, and another 10 hp 3 phase motor on the exhaust stack.. the exhaust filters are 98% efficient. the booth system is a balanced positive pressure system to avoid any dust infiltration in the spray area. we bake at around 140 degrees f, but our booth is capable of 170. it is very expensive to run the booth.

Went to pickup the Prius today. Now we are on plan B and Monday it will be ready. After painting mine on Tuesday, over a half dozen recent paint jobs were brought back in by the owners with rough paint. Said the Prius is OK but I will keep an eye on it. Now they have to repaint those cars.

Apparently there is a squirrel cage fan with filters that blows outside air down on the car in the paint booth. A squirrel cage fan with filters is also underneath the floor that exhausts the air outside and pulls down the air at a .5 cfm higher rate. They didn't know the one underneath wasn't working right. Spent the last 2 days fixing that and were adjusting the air flow when I was there.

They said it hadn't been working right for the last 2 years but they thought it had to do with outside wind, temperature, and humidity issues that was causing the problem with the down draft. One said something about not knowing the underneath fan unit was even there until they called the guy who installed it in 1989.

Go figure.

I asked about the Subaru we picked up last week and how do I tell if there is a problem? He said just rub your hand over the paint and if it feels rough then bring it back. He said they can only paint 3 cars a day in their booth.

Any comments? Thanks.

 

[glennster]

just wow on that! i have a bananza booth at my shop. i cannot believe they did not know about the exhaust system in the floor. i have our booth serviced twice a year and our filters are changed out at least quarterly. here is a link to bananza booths. http://www.bananza.com/spray-cure-heaters

 

[bc]

I can't believe they told me all that stuff. When I left the manager and assistant went back there to the booth as they said they hoped to have the air flow calibrated by the end of the day. They were probably still in school when it was put in back in 1989. The painter had only been there a couple years and I was told previously that he had 12 years experience with a large Ford dealer in wichita.

 

[Stephen Newell]

I can't believe they told me all that stuff. When I left the manager and assistant went back there to the booth as they said they hoped to have the air flow calibrated by the end of the day. They were probably still in school when it was put in back in 1989. The painter had only been there a couple years and I was told previously that he had 12 years experience with a large Ford dealer in wichita.

They may have been just making excuses for delays. Fancy equipment is nice but someone that knows what they are doing can paint a car in terrible conditions and have it come out nice.

 

[bc]

They may have been just making excuses for delays. Fancy equipment is nice but someone that knows what they are doing can paint a car in terrible conditions and have it come out nice.

Use to make paint work on the old mild steel fenders and bondo. Spray primer, sand again, spray paint, run the polisher, and add a coat of turtle wax.

Now half of the painting is on plastic, part on aluminum hoods, and I don't know what fenders and doors are made of anymore? Seems like you would need a different mix of paint and hardener and whatever when painting a car nowadays.

 

[Stephen Newell]

Use to make paint work on the old mild steel fenders and bondo. Spray primer, sand again, spray paint, run the polisher, and add a coat of turtle wax.

Now half of the painting is on plastic, part on aluminum hoods, and I don't know what fenders and doors are made of anymore? Seems like you would need a different mix of paint and hardener and whatever when painting a car nowadays.

Painting plastic isn't that much different than painting the metal. You just use an adhesion promoter before the priming. Painting aluminum, the self etching primer you use on steel will bond to aluminum alright or you can use epoxy primer if you wish. You might need to wipe the metal down with a solvent if the aluminum is oxidized a lot. If you are not using automotive paint then a zinc chromate primer would work. So far it really isn't that much harder to paint than it used to be, just may take an extra step or two. In the end the paint will last longer than it used to. Automotive paints they just want a specific blend of paint, thinner and hardener. The enamels that places like tractor supply sells are a lot simplier bur if a automotive paint can last three or four times longer isn't it worth the trouble to mix the blend of automotive paint to avoid the job of painting again.