Back fires

[Mfrench]

I’m currently working on a TO 20 Massey for a neighbor won’t start. I put a carb on from a 9 n Ford that I have that I know works really well clean the spark plugs. Check the gap check the points. Check the cap. Check the timing up on number one, but it pops and backfires through the carburetor. The firing order-is 1342 . Looking down on the cap the rotation is counterclockwise, correct? Thank you for any help.

 

[Jim.ME]

I’m currently working on a TO 20 Massey for a neighbor won’t start. I put a carb on from a 9 n Ford that I have that I know works really well clean the spark plugs. Check the gap check the points. Check the cap. Check the timing up on number one, but it pops and backfires through the carburetor. The firing order-is 1342 . Looking down on the cap the rotation is counterclockwise, correct? Thank you for any help.

For the record, a TO-20 is a (Harry) Ferguson, not a Massey Ferguson. It does come under the Massey Ferguson heading along with Massey Harris. They were both forerunners of MF.

1-3-4-2 counterclockwise is correct.

Did you confirm #1 was on compression when checking the timing? How?

Do you/he have the service manual?

Has timing been set with a light as called for in the manual?

When were the valves last adjusted?

Have you checked for air leaks around the manifold?

Compression check?

 

[Ray,IN]

Download the service manual here, but remove all spaces from the address first: https://www.n tractor club.com/manuals/tractors/1990%20I&T%20FE-2%20Service%20Manual%20(Ferguson%20TE20%20TO20%20TO30).pdf

 

[Mfrench]

For the record, a TO-20 is a (Harry) Ferguson, not a Massey Ferguson. It does come under the Massey Ferguson heading along with Massey Harris. They were both forerunners of MF.

1-3-4-2 counterclockwise is correct.

Did you confirm #1 was on compression when checking the timing? How?

Do you/he have the service manual?

Has timing been set with a light as called for in the manual?

When were the valves last adjusted?

Have you checked for air leaks around the manifold?

Compression check?

A little bit of history, the tractor is not mine. It’s a neighbors they bought it at an auction about four years ago. Use it a couple years then it sat tried to get it started wouldn’t start and brought it to me wanted me to rebuild the carburetor, changed the transmission oil so that’s basically all I know. I brought the number one up on compression and looked at the rotor button seemed to be pointing to number one on the cap I’ve done a compression test 100110 105105. It backfires so hard through the carburetor. it sounds like an old putt putt John Deere . It’s hard to check after starting. I have to use starting fluid to get it running, but with the backfiring little difficult to check for vacuum leak . With it running so rough. It’s hard to put a timing light on it. Keep it running long enough. I’m working on doing a leak down test. I’ve checked the points setting is correct. Check the plugs set new plugs at 25 checked each individual spark plug wire by grounding out the spark plug and a seem to be working but seem to be a bit erratic, maybe but it may be a bad alligator clamp on the plug. It had a 12 V conversion done, but I believe it was a 6 V coil so I put a new 12 V coil on it.I put the carburetor on from my Ford nine n that I have that I know works really well, so I’m assuming the setting would be very close. It also backfired with the original carburetor. I haven’t checked the valve lash. No I do not have a shop manual for it.

 

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The typical backfire pop is a common lean condition. If your compression numbers are over 100, I'd start looking at the sealing surfaces around the intake. If you're drawing air that bypasses the carb, there's a good chance you may find a leak. Unmetered air will cause a lean condition. If you are TDC and the rotor is indicating a close alignment, then you can assume it's close enough to run. If it's runs on starting fluid or choke, you have a fuel delivery problem.

 

[stevieb49829]

Did you check fuel flow ahead of the carburetor? If you have a restriction between the tank and the "good" carb, it would act exactly the same no matter what carb wasn't getting enough gas. steve

 

[Mfrench]

The typical backfire pop is a common lean condition. If your compression numbers are over 100, I'd start looking at the sealing surfaces around the intake. If you're drawing air that bypasses the carb, there's a good chance you may find a leak. Unmetered air will cause a lean condition. If you are TDC and the rotor is indicating a close alignment, then you can assume it's close enough to run. If it's runs on starting fluid or choke, you have a fuel delivery problem.

Ok thank you .its going to be a couple days now before i get back to it .i sure appreciate the wisdom .

 

[Mfrench]

Did you check fuel flow ahead of the carburetor? If you have a restriction between the tank and the "good" carb, it would act exactly the same no matter what carb wasn't getting enough gas. steve

Yes I did when I installed a filter before the carb . It was good . Thank you have a happy New Year’s Day

 

[rustred]

I’m currently working on a TO 20 Massey for a neighbor won’t start. I put a carb on from a 9 n Ford that I have that I know works really well clean the spark plugs. Check the gap check the points. Check the cap. Check the timing up on number one, but it pops and backfires through the carburetor. The firing order-is 1342 . Looking down on the cap the rotation is counterclockwise, correct? Thank you for any help.

A little bit of history, the tractor is not mine. It’s a neighbors they bought it at an auction about four years ago. Use it a couple years then it sat tried to get it started wouldn’t start and brought it to me wanted me to rebuild the carburetor, changed the transmission oil so that’s basically all I know. I brought the number one up on compression and looked at the rotor button seemed to be pointing to number one on the cap I’ve done a compression test 100110 105105. It backfires so hard through the carburetor. it sounds like an old putt putt John Deere . It’s hard to check after starting. I have to use starting fluid to get it running, but with the backfiring little difficult to check for vacuum leak . With it running so rough. It’s hard to put a timing light on it. Keep it running long enough. I’m working on doing a leak down test. I’ve checked the points setting is correct. Check the plugs set new plugs at 25 checked each individual spark plug wire by grounding out the spark plug and a seem to be working but seem to be a bit erratic, maybe but it may be a bad alligator clamp on the plug. It had a 12 V conversion done, but I believe it was a 6 V coil so I put a new 12 V coil on it.I put the carburetor on from my Ford nine n that I have that I know works really well, so I’m assuming the setting would be very close. It also backfired with the original carburetor. I haven’t checked the valve lash. No I do not have a shop manual for it.

Backfiring is the firing order is not correct. Recheck that.

 

[Jim.ME]

Yes I did when I installed a filter before the carb . It was good . Thank you have a happy New Year’s Day

I know you said you have installed a good carb from another tractor, so it is not likely it is a carb problem. Just to be clear, the best check is fuel flow through the carb, not to it. Checking through the carb means pulling the drain plug and catching what comes outs after the initial gush as the bowl empties. Time the steady flow and see how long it takes to collect a pint of fuel. (Note this only works for engines that do not use a fuel pump.)

 

[Mfrench]

I know you said you have installed a good carb from another tractor, so it is not likely it is a carb problem. Just to be clear, the best check is fuel flow through the carb, not to it. Checking through the carb means pulling the drain plug and catching what comes outs after the initial gush as the bowl empties. Time the steady flow and see how long it takes to collect a pint of fuel. (Note this only works for engines that do not use a fuel pump.)

Ok .i see that would be a good check of the complete system . Thank you .goodtip.

 

[rustred]

Ok .i see that would be a good check of the complete system . Thank you .goodtip.

ya confirm you firing order... when u say you get a backfire that gives it away right there. carburetors don't cause a backfire through the carb. its firing at the wrong time . get some pictures posted here showing how you have them plug wires. look at the rotor rotation when cranking it,... then make sure your firing order is following the same rotation. you may have the wire rotation backwards and that is causing the backfire and yes it will. and its running on 2 cyl's instead of 4.

 

[Mfrench]

ya confirm you firing order... when u say you get a backfire that gives it away right there. carburetors don't cause a backfire through the carb. its firing at the wrong time . get some pictures posted here showing how you have them plug wires. look at the rotor rotation when cranking it,... then make sure your firing order is following the same rotation. you may have the wire rotation backwards and that is causing the backfire and yes it will. and its running on 2 cyl's instead of 4.

I will do that tomorrow thank you

 

[Mfrench]

I will do that tomorrow thank you

 

[Jim.ME]

My eyes may be bad but that looks like they are plugged into the cap as 1-2-3-4, not 1-3-4-2.

 

[rustred]

My eyes may be bad but that looks like they are plugged into the cap as 1-2-3-4, not 1-3-4-2.

View attachment 138364

They are plugged in 1342 clockwise. I don’t know which way the dist turns on that engine. Plus they are carbon core wires, not good.

 

[rustred]

Better reread post # 12. You’re not jiving with your #1 post.

 

[Jim.ME]

They are plugged in 1342 clockwise. I don’t know which way the dist turns on that engine. Plus they are carbon core wires, not good.

It turns counterclockwise.

Are you sure about how they are plugged in?

 

[rustred]

It turns counterclockwise.

Are you sure about how they are plugged in?

View attachment 138366

Yes sure. The wires are on clockwise. That’s the problem.

 

[rustred]

He has 3 cyl wire looped under the coil wire. Instead of nicely in order. But its wrong anyhow. Another reason I make all my wires. They are all cut to length and neat. Not this one set fits all deal.