Backup Power when the Electricity is OUT

[lenray]

I have an indoor wood boiler. It has an inline pump that circulates the hot water.
When we loose power I have to get the fire out as it will continue to go higher in temps and trip and let water out, but no water coming back in as no Power.

A fella told me a thing called UPS Battery pack can be installed and when I loose power it will kick on and continue to circulate the water.

Any info. on this or another system to fall back on. THANKS

 

[Billy Shafer]

That system is out there. Not sure what a small unit would cost. You would need the specs for your systems pump in order to find out the cost.Or get a name brand portable gen set and run power cords to what ever you need.

 

[Dean]

You could probably use a battery back-up unit designed for a sump pump.

Dean

 

[RayP(MI)]

A ups is primarily to provide power for a computer long enough to do an orderly shutdown. Not for a long term outage. Probably not what you want for the pump for several hours to days...

 

[Russ from MN]

A 12 Volt battery and a inverter would work, it just has to be sized for the pump, and it depends how long you want to run the pump. you could even hook a inverter up to your vehicle battery out in your driveway.

 

[atlarge54]

Yes a wood boiler without power can be VERY INTERESTING (wonder how I know). Look at Tripplite charger/inverter (abt. $200). I use one for my boiler and it works quite well. The two big batteries off my boat keep the boiler safe in the winter months.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

A 12v battery and inverter may work for a short time, then what?

I have 2 3500 watt portable champion generators. They are honda clones. My newest one I got from Lowes. My first one isn't electric start and on sale around $300 at TSC. Never really had to use them more than 8 hours at a time. Hope I really never have to find out how long they will last. But I know I will never be without water. Food won't go bad in the refrig. I will have coffee, toast and the George Forman grill makes a nice grilled sandwich.
chanpion genny with remote starter.

 

[Ivan in Mich]

My outdoor wood burner will shut down when the power goes out. I have a fan on the door and without power it shuts the damper on the blower. I have a 9000 watt gen to run the whole house with if we lose power in the winter

 

[atlarge54]

For a wood boiler you don't have a lot of time to mess around. What if you're not at home or asleep? The batteries/inverter switch power and give me about 6 hours to get the generator out.

I looked on ebay and prices are closer to $300 now, it's been a few years.

 

[Determined]

They do make bigger UPS units;
Xantrex Powerhub 1800
I have one in the basement with four huge gell cell batteries in it. [ Picked it up Gov surplus 1-1/2 years old ]
Without knowing how big your motor is all I can do is give you an idea of what this unit can run depending on what batteries you go with.
-20 watt fireplace fan for 130 hours
-60 watt bulb for 60 hours
-300 watt sump pump for 10 hours
Built in smart charger keeps batteries charged up, built in power transfer switch automatically kicks in when power goes out.
Inputs to charge batteries back up with solar, wind power, generator, your truck etc.
Some furnace control boards not happy with modified sine wave power.
-1800 watt for 5 minute surge.
-1440 watt continous duty.
Complete package with good batteries $2500-$3000

 

[buickanddeere]

UPS systems have been used for years to protect computer system from voltage fluctuations , brownouts and blackouts. Been cheap and readily available f0r years.

 

[John,PA]

Here, we use the old say'N: WINTER TIME is a GOOD TIME to stay home, just to keep the HOME FIRES a Burni'N.

John,PA

 

[D beatty]

I am getting set up for a portable generator to run LP furnace,well, frig&freezer and microwave oven. I do have wood heat but need generator for well and keep from loosing everything in frig and freezer.

 

[JOB]

I have an inside boiler also and know what you mean when you say power or in some cases when the bell and gossett series 100 pump coupling breaks. It is hard to change a coupling in time before the boiler gets pretty hot.

I need to install a new boiler now that we have natural gas in the street and at the same time re plumb my system.

I thought about installing a second pump that could be powered up with a small generator. the pump would have a cord wired to it so you could plug into the generator or plug into house current to change the coupling. I should and may change to a different pump, I have heard the series 100 bell and Gossett pump is a electricity hog.

 

[JDemaris]

Yes, a battery pack or "bank" works fine. Problem is - it has to be replaced every 6-8 years. Costs a lot of money for something big enough to work. Then there's the issue recharging it if power it out for a long time. Getting a generator that runs off the same fuel you normally have available is the way to go (like natural gas or propane or diesel). Home heating oil too although it's illegal to use, it still works fine if you add lube to it. If you are a tractor owner- having a PTO generator is a great way to go. No extra engine to worry about.

 

[lenray]

Thanks fellas for the ideas---I have 3 generators on the property--our home. Atlarge 54 knows where I am at with a wood boiler. If you have a wood fire going and the circulating pump quits--due to no electricity---YOU NEED SOMETHING TO KICK IN WITHIN MINUTES.
I need something to kick on that gives me time to remove the wood fire or get another generator hooked up...........

 

[Ted in NE-OH]

Anything like that that isn't FAIL-SAFE scares me. What if you are not home.

 

[D beatty]

After reading this again and thinking about it more and reading comments it sounds like a stationary standby generator would be the safest route to go.If you were away from home you wouldn't have to worry.

 

[John T]

"YOU NEED SOMETHING TO KICK IN WITHIN MINUTES"

Okay, here's the deal and your choices:

A) A UPS system is often used for like computer systems where you need AN INSTANTANEOUS back up (IE UNinterruptible Power). Its true a Battery Backup UPS system might suit your needs IF THE UNIT IS SUFFICIENT WATTAGE to run your pump for a long enough time period which depends on how many Amp Hours of battery energy storage you have LOTS OF UNKNOWNS AND VARIABLES HERE.

If you use conventional flooded lead acid true Deep Cycle Batteries (or any for that matter) how many you need depends on your pump power requirements and how long you need the pump to run. WELL DUH

A) SUMMARY You need to know the pump energy requirements,,,,,,the time it needs to run,,,,,,then you can size a UPS and the batteries required

CHOICE B) NOT a UPS System buttttttttttt an auto start Generator with an automatic transfer switch. That would require a genny of sufficient capacity and fuel reserve coupled with its auto start system and an automatic transfer switch. NOTE THIS DEPENDS ON HOW LONG THE PUMP MAY BE IDLE BEFORTE THE GENNY STARTS AND STABILIZES AND THE TRANSFER SWITCH CYCLES. If it does that fast enough ???? you wouldn't need a UPS. When it senses power goes out the genny starts and stabilizes then the x fer switch kicks in so the genny runs the pump.

CHOICE C CADILLAC PLAN

I dont see you need this, however, if you need almost INSTANTANEOUS backup a UPS can initially power the pump only long enough for the genny described above to kick in, that way you dont need that much battery energy storage as compared to choice A.


CLOSING

I think I would look into emergency sump pump UPS battery back up systems if you ONLY want to keep the pump running a short time for a safe shut down. HOWEVER if you want to keep it running for long periods then Id look into an auto start genny and transfer switch CHOICE B. I dont see you need the Choice C Cadillac Plan UNLESS the pump must start almost instantly if utility power goes out and then you want to keep it running n extended time...

Hope this helps

John T

 

[John T]

Youre welcome,

If you already have generators DEPENDING ON HOW LONG BEFORE THE PUMP NEEDS TO RESTART

See my post above regarding an auto start for your genny coupled to an auto transfer switch. if power goes out a genny will start and stabilize then the transfer switch close to power your pump via the genny HOWEVER if the pump needs to be running almost instantly that auto system may not suffice (takes too long) and you need a UPS but it wont need as much battery power if its only used a short time until a genny can take over. See above

John T

 

[ss55]

I would check with local heating contractor or the manufacturer of your furnace to see what they designed for your your furnace and your heating system setup. If you have vertical pipes at your boiler you may get some non-powered water circulation from convection and steam bubbles rising from the boiler.

Some late steam railroad locomotives has safety plugs between the firebox and the boiler water jacket. To prevent boiler explosions in an emergency, the safety plug would melt dumping water and steam into the firebox to extinguish the fire quickly.

 

[lyle3]

I have a coil wood fire for in floor heat in shop desined to work without power works thermo syphon put one way valves in on the cold line at the low side you could put a bypass around the pump with another one way that way you always have cooler water coming in justa thought

 

[IH2444]

They make inverter units as big as you want them. I have used 220v converters/UPS units.

I have installed 20kw units in equipment centers

http://www.apc.com/home/us/en/

 

[Chris Jones]

I was just thinking and someone else mentioned the pump braking can cause the same problem as power outage. What if you are not home? I wonder how the makers of these systems plan for that?

Anyway is there a way to instead of using a generator to run the pump install a very small gas powered pump? It could be used as a backup if the pump failed too. Problem might be finding a small enough gas powered unit.

I'm thinking this isn't a boiler but a hot water furnace--the water is not supposed to boil. I'm betting there is a vent in case it does boil to relieve pressure. Is it possible to route that vented steam into the fire box and thus if the boiler overheated and started producing steam it would be shot into the box hopefully cooling the fire some--doubt it'd extinguish it.

 

[jim11]

My wood boiler has a heat dump circuit that works off gravity
There is a solinoid valve that is held closed by the power being
on. when the power goes out the valve opens and it ciculates
they said the zone should be one tenth the boilers output

 

[Ron-MO]

I know there are several variations of these. Mine simply shuts down when power is out. Draft is controlled by thermostat which I set to run approx. 150 degrees, but circulating pump runs all the time. My issue would be when water temp got low enough to freeze due to lack of circulation, but I have a generator in that case, and made up a pigtail so I can switch over at the meter pole and power my entire house including the outdoor wood furnace, but have to be careful to leave off heavy loads such as dryer, or electric oven, etc.

 

[El Toro]

I got tired of fueling a generator in the dark and running extension cords. Had a Kohler generator installed in 2012. Runs off NG. Ran for 26 hours when Sandy hit the East coast two years ago. Hal