??? Bad Compression ??? 1710 Ford

[YORT]

100% quick learning virgin mechanic on Ford 1710 with 2600hr.

I've owned & operated this machine for the last 5 years doing the regular maintenance on oil, filters, hydraulic changes, etc.on a small farm mainly doing landscaping after building.

I now have a new problem that I need assistance with.
The tractor has been getting harder to start now it just turns over and over with a "gray" toned exhaust. It sounds like it wants to, but it just never gets there. I have not replaced the starter which I have found as a recommendation while searching out solutions for the problem.

Here s what I ve done so far .
power washed engine with hot water to clean off
replaced all fuses, replaced battery
flushed fuel tank, replaced fuel filter & fuel overflow hoses from injectors
replaced oil heat sensor, engine heat sensor and fan belt
followed primming procedures to start the engine
Attempted to start but same problem presented itself

Next in line .
verified fuel was going through aluminum injector lines
verified injectors were spraying fuel using a piece of paper for pattern
replaced glow plugs; primed the fuel following procedures
Attempted to start but same problem presented itself.

Next in line .
Ran a compression test through the glow plugs. Each test was done on a cold motor because it will not start. Each test was turning the starter/ motor over 15-20 seconds to reach max pressure 2x on each glow plug location with all glow plugs removed.
turned off fuel
removed aluminum fuel lines from the injectors but left them attached to injector pump
removed all the glow plugs then ran test on each glow port
#3- with throttle open and closed 350-375 compression
#2- with throttle open and closed 275 compression
#1- with throttle open and closed 250 compression


My question is what is my next step? I m learning as I m going and trying to do what I can to save on dollars and understand how the engine operates for future repairs. I ve researched using videos and forums to get where I am now however, I don t know exactly what the next step is. I m guessing that it s a valve, piston or cylinder and I ll be starting a disassembly on the head to access the needed locations.

Any help, advice, assistance or guidance, videos, documents, etc. would be greatly appreciated. I do have the Mechanics Manual and the Owners Manual which I have used as well. If there is additional information need, photos, videos of the engine or anything else I would be more than happy to get what you need to help me.

Thanks again for your assistance . Troy


NOV 11 UPDATE with photos Injector ports are in chronological order 1, 2, 3

This post was edited by YORT on 11/12/2023 at 10:56 pm.

 

[Dieseltech]

First, the injector lines are NOT aluminum, they are steel. Compression should be 400/450 PSI on that engine. for it to start well. If engine had a block heater, use it
and see if it will start. Diesels will run with lower than normal compressio, but don't start well cold. Make sure battery/cables and starter are in good shape too,
diesel engines won't start well if cranking speed is slower than normal.

 

[Tom in Mo.]

As Dieseltech says.
I have two of the Shibaura Fords each with under 600 hours and they MUST have good glow plugs and the glow plugs must be used even in the summer on a cold engine. The cylinders have a precombustion chamber that makes this a requirement. My 1510 needs the glow plugs a couple of times to fire off. The 1620 fires off first time.
Also as Dieseltech says, use a big hot battery to spin the engine.
Never use ether on these engines or it will be scrap metal.

 

[Blackhole49]

It would help to know where you are located. Agree with both Diesel and Tom. I have 4 compacts. 3
Kubotas and a JD. Only the BX 25D Kubota will start in the summer without glow plugs (at 2015 it is
the newest). All are plugged in in the winter (MI). My 92 B7200 HST needs at least 30 seconds of
glow plug on a 100* day yet runs perfectly with no oil use. BTW; you might want to consider adding
yourself to the members map.

 

[YORT]

Thank you for the advice. I will check all connections and plug in the block heater.

 

[YORT]

Thanks Tom.
I do have a new heavy duty battery and new glow plugs installed. Before attempting to start I have always heated the glow plugs for 30+ seconds, longer when its colder out and shorter if the engine has
been off for few minuets.

 

[YORT]

Thanks BlackHole
I am located in Cheney, WA a four season state.
I have new glow plugs and always do a pre-heat of 30+ seconds depending on weather and I have installed new glow plugs and a new heavy duty battery. I will plug in the block heater to see if that helps me getting things started.
Lastly, I will add myself to the members map and update any additional member info I can.

Thank you for your assistance

 

[Sean in PA]

Have you checked all of the connections in the wiring that are related to the starting circuit to make sure that they are clean, bright and shiny? I'm talking about disconnecting things and inspecting where the metal makes contact with metal. Any dirty, oxidized or corroded connections will reduce the amount of current that can flow.

 

[YORT]

[I have not completed that inspection however I will be doing, that this morning.
Thanks for the assistance and please don't hesitate on any thoughts you may have.

 

[YORT]

BlackHole, where do I find the members map. Im unable to find it or anything else to update myself except in the "PROFILE" which is extremely limited.

 

[Blackhole49]

.
Untitled URL Link

 

[used red MN]

Hello YORT welcome to YT! Just FYI for future
reference, I am sure you must have watched videos or
read explanations of how to test the compression. On a
diesel the throttle position has no affect on the
compression reading. I am basically saying one set of
readings would have been adequate. On a gas engine
there is a throttle plate that closes off the intake air at
idle and then as it opens and additional fuel is supplied
and the rpm increases. So for checking the
compression on a gasoline engine the throttle plate
needs to be open to some degree to get adequate air
for the cylinders to compress. In a diesel engine the air
intake is open with no restricting device. The engine
rpm and response to load is controlled strictly by the
amount of fuel the injection pump supplies to the
cylinder injectors. Your starter could very well be a
large contributor to your no start issue due to a low
cranking speed as has been mentioned.
Also as pointed out the injector lines are steel but look
like they are aluminum because they have a protective
plating on them.
Just for your information I am attaching a link to the
manufacturers online parts catalog for your tractor. At
the present I believe FIAT is the current owner of the
Ford/New Holland name.
CNHI Ford 1710 online parts catalog

 

[rustred]

First time I have heard of doing a compression test that
way. All you need is 5 compression puffs, per cylinder.
And make sure each cylinder has the gets the same
puffs. And that seams like low compression to me for a
diesel , plus a diesel builds heat by cranking it over so
you could have spun it over a few times before removing
glow plugs. To check compression on a cyl. Only takes
like 5 seconds , not 20 seconds. The battery had to be
getting low by the time u were done. And a diesel
requires cranking speed to start so that means make sure
your battery is good. To verify this give it a pull and see
how it starts.

 

[YORT]

(quoted from post at 20:58:59 11/12/23) Hello YORT welcome to YT! Just FYI for future
reference, I am sure you must have watched videos or
read explanations of how to test the compression. On a
diesel the throttle position has no affect on the
compression reading. I am basically saying one set of
readings would have been adequate. On a gas engine
there is a throttle plate that closes off the intake air at
idle and then as it opens and additional fuel is supplied
and the rpm increases. So for checking the
compression on a gasoline engine the throttle plate
needs to be open to some degree to get adequate air
for the cylinders to compress. In a diesel engine the air
intake is open with no restricting device. The engine
rpm and response to load is controlled strictly by the
amount of fuel the injection pump supplies to the
cylinder injectors. Your starter could very well be a
large contributor to your no start issue due to a low
cranking speed as has been mentioned.
Also as pointed out the injector lines are steel but look
like they are aluminum because they have a protective
plating on them.
Just for your information I am attaching a link to the
manufacturers online parts catalog for your tractor. At
the present I believe FIAT is the current owner of the
Ford/New Holland name.
CNHI Ford 1710 online parts catalog

Thank you for the welcoming and information Guru
As an update, I did compression tests today both wet and dry using the injector ports doing each port 2x for both tests. I plugged in the block heater for about 2 hours prior to testing with the shop temp around 50. I also verified all electrical connections were good and clean. Additionally, I verified that the glow plugs were working, watching them through the injector ports. The #2 port seemed to always have some smoke coming from it throughout the tests while the others had none. For the WET test I put about 1tsp of engine oil in the port taking both tests without inducing additional oil. I also took pics of the ports with the glow plugs energized and off, pics of the injectors and a quick video trying to start the tractor.

When turning over after the glow plugs had been energized for 30 sec I noticed a clunking noise that wasn't there before. On the second attempt to start and to identify the location of the knocking noise, the starter went out. I have since ordered a new one that will arrive on Thursday. After installation I will post the response from the tractor.

Here were my results for the compression tests ....
#1: DRY 250psi & 250psi
WET 300psi & 295psi
Glow Plug 10.8 volts

#2: DRY 210 psi & 240psi
WET 260psi & 270psi
Glow Plug 10.8 volts

#3: DRY 340psi & 345psi
WET 350psi & 350psi
Glow Plug 10.11 volts

I appreciate your information and advice, I will post an update after the new starter is in.

 

[YORT]

Thank you for the info and advice. I see that I am over on my cranking time. I was watching the gauge more waiting for it to top out or stop at 30 seconds.


As an update, I did compression tests today both wet and dry using the injector ports doing each port 2x for both tests. I plugged in the block heater for about 2 hours prior to testing with the shop temp around 50. I also verified all electrical connections were good and clean. Additionally, I verified that the glow plugs were working, watching them through the injector ports. The #2 port seemed to always have some smoke coming from it throughout the tests while the others had none. For the WET test I put about 1tsp of engine oil in the port taking both tests without inducing additional oil. I also took pics of the ports with the glow plugs energized and off, pics of the injectors and a quick video trying to start the tractor.

When turning over after the glow plugs had been energized for 30 sec I noticed a clunking noise that wasn't there before. On the second attempt to start and to identify the location of the knocking noise, the starter went out. I have since ordered a new one that will arrive on Thursday. After installation I will post the response from the tractor.

Here were my results for the compression tests ....
#1: DRY 250psi & 250psi
WET 300psi & 295psi
Glow Plug 10.8 volts

#2: DRY 210 psi & 240psi
WET 260psi & 270psi
Glow Plug 10.8 volts

#3: DRY 340psi & 345psi
WET 350psi & 350psi
Glow Plug 10.11 volts

I appreciate your information and advice, I will post an update after the new starter is in.

 

[Dieseltech]

The clunking noise MIGHT be from number two cylinder, rod bearing or pin bushing damage which will cause lower compression on that cylinder.

 

[sotxbill]

All 3 glow plugs must work and work well. You must run the glow plugs for 30 secs and then run them again if cold. Even a hair dryer blown over the manifold to heat it up.. and into the manifold,,,will make it start quicker. Its not unusual for one or more glow plugs to be bad or have a bad connection. Measure the resistance of each glow plug and make sure all of them are very very low and almost equal... usually near 3 ohms give or take. Consider replacing the glow plugs. This function is critical to starting these long stroke tractors, where ether will not work and make them try to run backwards.. Fast cranking is the second function needed to create the heat. Meaning an excellent battery and fantastic cables and connections are needed.. It must crank normal or fast,, but never slow. If it cranks slow, it will NOT start. Make sure the throttle is advanced just a bit so that you not near cut fuel off as some tractors have a fuel cut off in the throttle.. Yours may not.

 

[YORT]

(quoted from post at 05:10:52 11/13/23) The clunking noise MIGHT be from number two cylinder, rod bearing or pin bushing damage which will cause lower compression on that cylinder.

Thanks Diesel. As a newbie the #2 looks dry and crusty in the chamber and the ejector looks drier compared to the others.

I do have a question ... it has been recommended that I pull start the tractor if the starter doesn't work. If I do that, will it create additionally assault to any of cylinders, bearings, pin bushing, etc. inside the engine?

I will update the status after I install the new starter.

 

[YORT]

Thanks Sotxbill.
The glow plugs are brand new. It doesn't mean that they are working properly so I will test them as recommended. I can say that they are way stronger, brighter and hotter than the original ones.

I'll post an update when I get the new starter installed at the end of the week.