Bad Solenoid or Starter?

[Ben Hastings]

Issue du jour: Fresh battery (6+ v from the meter reading), wiring correct, generator polarized, then, when I push the start button, I just hear a click and then nothing.

My guess is either the solenoid is bad (preferable for $), or the starter is bad.

So, any ideas on troubleshooting or - since it's just making a single click at the solenoid, is that enough to determine that it's engaging and the starter isn't?

This is a '52, 6v, nearly original (including the generator/starter/solenoid). I've been slowly replacing parts over the last year and have finally hit this problem.

Supposedly, I should replace the ignition key, too, but I'm not certain how to test that it's still good or not.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Mad Farmer]

Check starter ground, or add a ground with a jumper, then use a jumper to go directly from bat to starter. (make sure it is in neutral!)

If it turns starter is O.K. and you have problems between it and the battery.

 

[Ben Hastings]

I tried that with the solenoid last night (used jumper cables) - I got the click, but still not turning of the starter.

I"d be happy to try it direct to the starter, too, but I only see the connection from the solenoid to the starter. Where else should I connect to bypass the solenoid?

That, or if it"s "grounded" already (connected to the positive by virtue of being connected to the body), then do I just need to jump the negative terminal on the battery to the starter?

 

[Bruce (VA)]

The solenoid is making a noise because of low voltage. That is likely caused by:

1. A weak battery (charge it & check it per tip # 49) A meter on the battery doesn't get you much. Flashlight batteries are 6v as well but they won't turn the starter motor.
2. Dirty grounds/connections (remove the cables & clean the connections)
3. Bad cables or incorrect sized cables (replace them - see tip # 41)
4. Bad ground between the starter & the block. (pull the starter away from the block & clean the mating area - see tip # 36)

It is unlikely that the starter is bad. But, if you want to check it, see tip # 43.

As to the ignition switch....you have a meter, right? The switch has 2 wires. One in, one out. Key on, you should have 6v on both sides. Key off, 6v on one side only. And, the switch has nothing to do w/ the starter turning over.
50 Tips

 

[Ben Hastings]

Bruce,
So, the solenoid isn't supposed to make ANY noise? I'm just curious about how it works/what its purpose might be if there isn't anything that goes on there. If it were just a big capacitor, then it shouldn't make noise, but I don't believe it's supposed to be a capacitor.

Regarding your points:
1. the battery is brand new.
2. Connections are clean
3. Cables are only a year old and the tractor ran fine last summer/early fall.
4. I can give this a try

And the switch _could_ have something to do with the starter for the same reason you supplied the first four items - increased resistance at the switch would decrease available volts in the system. I was more concerned about the right points to hit to measure the resistance at the switch.

 

[Mad Farmer]

You need a good ground to the tractor. You can supplement this with a jumper from starter body to any of the metal casting of the block or clutch housing.

If you are running positive ground, bypass the selenoid by running a jumper from - bat to starter post. That should turn the starter if the bat and starter are good

 

[Ben Hastings]

Thank you, Mad Farmer.

Now I just need to get out of the office to get home and give it a shot!

 

[Bruce (VA)]

" If it were just a big capacitor..."

Huh? Why would you suppose it's a capacitor? It's a switch. When you press the thumb switch, the solenoid closes & battery voltage flows through it to the starter.

" And the switch _could_ have something to do with the starter"

No, the ignition switch does not. If you don't want to believe what I said, then look at a wiring diagram. Actually, just look at your tractor & you will see the fallacy of that statement. The starting, charging & ignition circuits are separate. The only thing they have in common is the battery. The engine will turn over just fine w/o the ignition switch being turned on. It will never start however because the switch controls current to the coil.

BTW, check out tip # 39. A complete set of manuals will give you an understanding of the basics.
50 Tips

 

[Dell (WA)]

Ben.......aint'chur solenoid ('cuz it clicks) and aint'chur starter motor......ittz'chur RUSTY sheetmetal battery tray GROUND. Replace that short 5"-flatbraid ground with the LONGER 11"-flatbraid ground to one of yer steering gearbox attach bolts.

And whizz that starter motor endplate gap with wirewheel and yer starter motor will go rumpa-rumpa 'stedda' rump...rump .......the ground Dell

 

[Jubilee85 (VA)]

Ben,

to share a little light on the workings of the solenoid - rember playing pinball as a kid? The flippers on the pinball table are solenoids, you push the button and a magnetic field is created and it pulls or pushed a metal rod through the magnetic field. A solenoid is the same as the flipper solenoid, but when you push the "button" the metal contacts two large bolts internally. It simple connects the fat red wire from the battery to the fat red wire to the starter. Clicking is always bad, low voltage due to low bat or bad ground is the problem a lot. You never hear the "click" due to the noise of the tractor starting or the starter motor spinning. It still clicks under normal use - you just never hear it!
Solenoids rarely go bad - connections are reasons why most of the time.

 

[teddy52food]

Even if the solinoid clicks it may have bad , burned contacts inside.

 

[teddy52food]

Is the starter locked? Put it in high gear with the switch off & rock the tractor back and forth using the rear wheels. Watch & see if the fan moves. If it doesn't, take the starter bolts loose & try again.

 

[Dell (WA)]

teddy.......and the chances of BURNED internal contacts are??? .......respectfully, Dell

 

[Ben Hastings]

So, I didn't have to ground it - that works.

For all of the following: I have the power disconnected from the battery - the negative lead isn't connected.

I connected the positive of the jumper cables to the battery (ground), then the other jumper end to the negative on the battery. I was prepared to connect that negative to the starter and it started cranking - slowly, but cranking none the less.

I tried connecting the negative jumper cable to the same terminal on the solenoid as the battery cable - nothing happened. I tried connecting it to the side that has the copper strip that connects the solenoid to the starter - still nothing.

So, my guess is that the terminals/connections might need cleaned. Unless someone has another theory.

What's the best way for that? Steel wool? Something else? I can stop by the hardware store if I need to, but I've had woeful luck finding replacement nuts/bolts.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Please pay attention to the advice you are getting.

Hooking jumper cables directly to a battery is a damn good way to blow up a battery.

I told you how to do that safely: tip # 43.

As to cleaning, get a battery terminal cleaner at the auto store. That will clean the battery posts & terminals at the battery. Get a small wire brush to fit in your drill & clean the mating area for the positive cable at the battery box.

And don't forget to pull the starter off of the bell housing & clean that as well.
50 Tips

 

[teddy52food]

Chances are good. The studs that the copper washer contacts get worn down. The Delco solonoids can be taken apart and the stud is turned to correct it. PS Did you get time to watch that video? gogyropower.com