baler timing

[alderman]

To start with...humor me. A friend has an old small square baler. Hasn't been used for a couple years. They had trouble with knotting when it was used last. It's free...but that can sometimes spell disaster. How difficult are these old balers to time and is it something you can do without having a row of hay to test it on. I asked for brand. He said red. Big help right? I'll find out later but was curious as to the timing thing before I dug too deep.

 

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have done some timing work on old New Hollands and they are pretty easy to figure out the timing if you understand the sequence of how a baler works. It is critical to time the baler while it is empty and you can spin it over by hand and watch as everything happens in slow motion. If you get the timing wrong just stop and change it. Under power you will have broken something before you realize that it is not correct. Basically the plunger has to be timed so it does not go into the throat while the the packer fingers are in there, and the knotters have to be timed so the needles are up while the plunger is forward, away from them.
Zach

 

[55deere70]

A hundred different things can cause a baler not to knot. It may not be out of time at all. Sometimes it's as simple as a dull knife.

 

[Dick2]

Do as Zachary says before you do anything else. If that doesn't tie a knot, there are several other problems that need to be checked. It could be a sheared pin on one of the knotters, sheared key, sheared pin in one of the billhooks, etc., etc.

Get a manual for that exact model and learn all of the things to do to get it working properly.

If there is an old man around that ran binders, he may be able to give you some pointers - but not many of those old timers around anymore.

 

[alderman]

Thanks for the unbiased input. I will take your advice. My father in law is one of those old timers. He will be able to shed some light as well

 

[Tom in TN]

alderman,

My only experience on balers is on New Holland square balers. I currently have a 273. As far as basic "timing" the only thing that is "adjusted" is the top chain that drives the knotter clutch. You must have details of what you are looking for to do the timing properly. The basic timing is the relationship between the plunger and needles plus their relationship to the knotter clutch.

What I've written doesn't help you but the point that I'm trying to make is that the timing is very simple if you have a simple step-by-step guide to follow.

If you can find out for sure what make and model the baler is, there are plenty of guys on here who can probably give you a step-by-step procedure to follow.

Good luck. Timing is simple. Knotter function isn't.

Tom in TN

 

[paul]

Timing has to do with the plunger shearing off the needles. You may have knotter issues, not timing exactly?

New Holland model 69 or bigger is generally -the- baler where things were figured out and worked. Parts are easily available for them. Older Nh balers had wad boards and not quite as good.

International sold a lot of balers, they weren't quite as solid, more knotter troubles, not as much parts and info around for them.

Paul

 

[GarryinNC]

Zachary,

I thought that the needles are timed go up when the plunger is all the way back, compressing the hay. The plunger head has cut outs for this.

Garry

 

[RodinNS]

They're exceedingly easy to time when you spend the 30 bucks the dealer wants for an OEM OPERATORS manual. With that in hand you will get it timed correctly in under half an hour. Without it... you'll smash a bunch of needles before you wise up and buy the book.

Rod

 

[Sid]

Garry, I think you thought right.

 

[farmerwithmutt]

If its international scrap it we had one and they have a differnt knotter then the rest . as they said its more then timing neighbor had one that had not been used in years he had trouble making a knot turned out between it was 2 things rust and to tight on the bale tension .
Also keep your hands out if baler is running its tempting to reach in cousin did 5 hours of surgery hes lucky to have a hand he reached in to pull a piece of twine out and the bar pulling the needles got him

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 21:59:57 05/08/14) Zachary,

I thought that the needles are timed go up when the plunger is all the way back, compressing the hay. The plunger head has cut outs for this.

Garry

Garry
You are correct that PH is supposed to have compress hay while needles travel up through slots in PH. I'll add that if baler is out of time needles won't get bent/broken if PH safety stop is working correctly.

 

[Zachary Hoyt]

I have a NH 67 and a 68 and they both have a lockout that keeps
the plunger from coming all the way back when the needle frame is
not in the home position. When the plunger hits the stop it shears
the pin on the flywheel. I have never broken any needles yet, I
know they are hideously expensive so I am as careful as I can be
about making sure that the stop is working.
Zach

 

[Northvale - PA]

No. On JD Balers, the needles begin to enter the
base case when the Plunger head is about equal to
them in the stroke. The needles basically reach the
top of their movement as the plunger head is just
begining its backward movement. The needles hold the
hay in place as the knot is tied, which is very
fast. If the plunger head safety stop does not work
or gets rusty or the spring breaks, etc, miss-timed
needles will be hit. the timing is very critical.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 06:48:14 05/10/14) The needles hold the hay in place as the knot is tied, which is very
fast.

Needles don't hold hay but hay dogs do. Let hay baler get some stuck hay dogs or broken hay dog springs and it will give tying problems

 

[RodinNS]

You're essentially correct about the timing... but there will be a measured spec for plunger position to set the timing. I'd not want to wing it as one sprocket tooth in the difference is all it takes to cause a pile up.
Beyond that, the needles hold nothing but the twine. The hay dogs hold the charge. If they don't... it won't tie.

Rod

 

[keh]

First thing needed is the make and model of baler because the timing is different on different makes, as mentioned below.

KEH