Barnyard Engineering

[Texasmark]

I was reading one of your replies and having seen your Avatar I finally got curious about what it says so I expanded the screen and what I saw brought a situation I once experienced......found it amusing but true:

Back in the early '70's my family was growing and the Chevy Bel Air 4 door just wasn't cutting it. I decided I needed a station wagon and I liked Chevrolets at the time so I went to a Dallas Chevy dealer to trade in and get a station wagon. The lot had 3 '71 Chevy fake woody wagons on the lot. The engine was labeled a 400 HP, big block V8 (348 cu. in. upgrade) with a Quadrajet four barrel carb and a 3 speed hydromatic. I drove all 3 trying to find one that ran right but none of them did but I had to have a Chevy wagon so I bought the best running one.

After awhile I stood all the detuning I could stand ( thank you US govt.) so I took the car back to the dealer's service dept figuring they knew what I didn't about how to get it to run right. The mechanic decided that he knew the problem with them (experienced on detuning to meet emission standards) so he went after the Quadrajet.....(which was a piece of crap...Fords Holly 650 CFM Double Pumper would perform circles around them). Since I usually do my own work on things, I had some questions concerning that car so that I could better understand it. I got part way into the first question and the guy put his shop towel down, his open end wrench down, pulled up a stool right in front of me, looked me right in the eye and said what do you want to know?????? The shop charged by the hour as usual, and I got the message right off.....he is tired of customers asking him stupid (to him) questions so he developed a way to prevent it. I retracted the question and he got up and went back to work.....after he finished it still didn't run right. I can't believe I kept that piece of crap as long as I did.

 

[Steven Allen]

The Quadrajet is an excellent carb IF you get the pre-emissions one. the smaller primaries enable decent gas mileage--I got over 20 ,mph out of a 327 with a Q-Jet--and those big secondaries will kick you in the behind and scoot you right on down the road. You do have to take a little time to set them up, but ,once set up, they are excellent on the street and darned hard to beat by other equivalent cfm carbs.

Are you sure of those specs on the cars? I am curious as to why anyone would put 348s in three different wagons. I don't know of (but that is hardly decisive) a spread-bore intake for the 348. Production of the W-Head engines ended long before the Q-Jet was introduced, but I suppose someone could have produced one.

 

[Texasmark]

This event was back in the early '70's......I'm 84 and my memory is questionable. I do remember the 400 stamped on the air cleaner cover and I don't think the 409 had come out. If it had it probably was only in the Biscayne models with "3 on the tree" to compete with the Chrysler Corp. Hot dog "Dukes of Hazard" type hot rods. Maybe it was a detuned 409? The technician at the chevy did say that the engines in that era were detuned to meet emission standards.....don't know what consisted of a "de-tune" process for 1971 model cars but for one thing the air inlet on the intake air filter housing was just larger than a silver dollar.....Probably a stop gap measure to give time for GM to engineer an engine properly to meet the emission requirements. Each of the two rear jets....that opened at their leisure when stomping the gas, were about that size. Flipping over the lid did help with air flow but you had to put up with this delayed sucking sound when you needed a power boost......and putting dual glass packs helped the performance but you had to put up with the noise.

The next door neighbor had the same year-model Ford Wagon and put my GM POS to shame.

 

[kencombs]

The Quadrajet is an excellent carb IF you get the pre-emissions one. the smaller primaries enable decent gas mileage--I got over 20 ,mph out of a 327 with a Q-Jet--and those big secondaries will kick you in the behind and scoot you right on down the road. You do have to take a little time to set them up, but ,once set up, they are excellent on the street and darned hard to beat by other equivalent cfm carbs.

Are you sure of those specs on the cars? I am curious as to why anyone would put 348s in three different wagons. I don't know of (but that is hardly decisive) a spread-bore intake for the 348. Production of the W-Head engines ended long before the Q-Jet was introduced, but I suppose someone could have produced one.

Probably a 402CI big block. That was a 396 with a .030 overbore. But, depending on the model it was sitting in it could have different stickers. One was 'Turbo-Jet 400'. Referring to displacement, not HP.

The 348/409, W family was discontinued long before 71. The 396 debuted in 66 I think. Then 402 and 427. Some replacement versions go to 500.

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

This event was back in the early '70's......I'm 84 and my memory is questionable. I do remember the 400 stamped on the air cleaner cover and I don't think the 409 had come out. If it had it probably was only in the Biscayne models with "3 on the tree" to compete with the Chrysler Corp. Hot dog "Dukes of Hazard" type hot rods. Maybe it was a detuned 409? The technician at the chevy did say that the engines in that era were detuned to meet emission standards.....don't know what consisted of a "de-tune" process for 1971 model cars but for one thing the air inlet on the intake air filter housing was just larger than a silver dollar.....Probably a stop gap measure to give time for GM to engineer an engine properly to meet the emission requirements. Each of the two rear jets....that opened at their leisure when stomping the gas, were about that size. Flipping over the lid did help with air flow but you had to put up with this delayed sucking sound when you needed a power boost......and putting dual glass packs helped the performance but you had to put up with the noise.

The next door neighbor had the same year-model Ford Wagon and put my GM POS to shame.

The 409 came out to keep up with the Ford 406.

So, 1961.

Mike

 

[used red MN]

I also was going to dispute the 348W engine but I let it ride.
I would guess the SW had a 400 small block, which would have been new that year. Although I never seen a 400 small block in a car, with a Quadrajet but this was a special setup, most had the 2bbl. 71 Chevy Kingswood SW info
The majority of 400 small blocks with the 4bbl I saw were in 3/4 ton 4wd pickups.
I agree with Steve a properly setup Quadrajet is a hard carb to beat. A little known fact is that Ford actually used them on the 70 & 71 429 Cobra Jet and notice I did not say “Super CJ”

Some replacement versions go to 500.

Although an engine larger than 454 would be a replacement in this case GM offered a fuel injected 8.1 liter BB 495 CID (Mark IV configuration) in pickups from 2001 - 2009.

One last, while a 2dr Biscayne with a 427 and 3 on the tree was a thing. I was once taken the rural parochial school by the brother of my classmate who was home on leave from the Navy. The 1966 Impala SS coupe with the 427 and 4 on the floor he had was nearly brand new at the time.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Among other things, one of the more popular emission mods for mfrs was retard the cam 3⁰. Cheap and easy to do.

I hear quite a lot about how Quadrajets are junk. These individuals seem to think they are universally calibrated to go from a 454 to a 305 just because they fit, then are surprised when they work poorly, or put a cam in it and suddenly find they are running lean at speed. They don't know what to do about it, therefore they are junk.

 

[Texasmark]

The 409 came out to keep up with the Ford 406.

So, 1961.

Mike

1961? Well I guess that's about right. It was '61 or '62 that a neighbor had a friend come over with a new red Chevy Biscayne 2 door with the 409, 3 on the tree, bragging about how bad it was. You know.....they say that your mind (memory) is the first thing to go as you age....guess I'm following the guidelines......naw the body is breaking too....just every day I wonder what's going to break next and its following right along. Don't want to know what keeping me alive is costing Medicare.

So maybe that 400 was a detuned 409 after all!!!! Makes sense.

 

[olddavid]

Giddy up giddy up 409! I'm pretty sure the 409 was available up to '64. A teacher at my high school opted for a new 327 '64 instead since it was easier to control.

 

[Absent Minded Farmer]

Giddy up giddy up 409! I'm pretty sure the 409 was available up to '64. A teacher at my high school opted for a new 327 '64 instead since it was easier to control.

The 409 ended production in '65. Ford's 406 was only around for a year, '62 - '63 & was replaced by the Top-Oiler 427.

Would love to have a '62 Cigarbird with the Tri Power 390 or 4bbl 406. I passed up on the latter, many moons ago. It was right down the road from here, but the guy wanted way to much for a car that sat in the weeds forever & the frame gave out. Wouldn't sell the engine separate from the car either. I had wanted it & the MX transmission for my '62 Galaxie.

Mike

 

[kencombs]

Here is an AI summary of the chevy 400 names.

The Chevy Turbo-Fire 400 refers to
Chevrolet's 400 cubic inch small-block V8 engine, which was produced from 1970 to 1973. It was part of the "Turbo-Fire" engine family and is known for its large displacement, but also for a confusing branding scheme where a 400 cubic inch big-block was called a "Turbo Jet"

So if it had 400 on the valve covers the word following tells whether it was really a 400 small block or 402CI big block, renamed by marketing as a 400. Friend of mine had one of the latter in a 1/2 pickup way back when.

 

[mjsnodgrass]

Giddy up giddy up 409! I'm pretty sure the 409 was available up to '64. A teacher at my high school opted for a new 327 '64 instead since it was easier to control.

my cousin had a 409 / 4 sp in a 65 impala. he still wishes he had that car. sold it during first gas shortage. think he got 800 for it, it was a nice car

 

[Texasmark]

Giddy up giddy up 409! I'm pretty sure the 409 was available up to '64. A teacher at my high school opted for a new 327 '64 instead since it was easier to control.

I part timed at a gasoline service station when in high school. One customer had a 57 Chevy with the fuel injected 327 and 3 on the tree for a company car. He would bring it in regularly to have it serviced. I did a lot of the servicing on it but I had a problem: I couldn't move it without squeaking the rear tires. That sucker was so hot even with my trying and the boss standing in the door watching, I still couldn't.

 

[Texasmark]

Here is an AI summary of the chevy 400 names.

The Chevy Turbo-Fire 400 refers to
Chevrolet's 400 cubic inch small-block V8 engine, which was produced from 1970 to 1973. It was part of the "Turbo-Fire" engine family and is known for its large displacement, but also for a confusing branding scheme where a 400 cubic inch big-block was called a "Turbo Jet"

So if it had 400 on the valve covers the word following tells whether it was really a 400 small block or 402CI big block, renamed by marketing as a 400. Friend of mine had one of the latter in a 1/2 pickup way back when.

I guarantee you it was a big block. I did a valve job on it at about 45k miles....a real piece of crap. My '67 Bel Air 4 door sedan was a small block so I know the difference.....much more reliable and fuel efficient engine.

 

[Steven Allen]

Here is an AI summary of the chevy 400 names.

The Chevy Turbo-Fire 400 refers to
Chevrolet's 400 cubic inch small-block V8 engine, which was produced from 1970 to 1973. It was part of the "Turbo-Fire" engine family and is known for its large displacement, but also for a confusing branding scheme where a 400 cubic inch big-block was called a "Turbo Jet"

So if it had 400 on the valve covers the word following tells whether it was really a 400 small block or 402CI big block, renamed by marketing as a 400. Friend of mine had one of the latter in a 1/2 pickup way back when.

And neither Chevy 400 was related to the earlier Chevy W-head 348/409 series.

Detuning refers to changing specifications for fuel delivery, timing, valve dimensions, compression ratio, and such details that had been optimized for performance but were changed to optimize emissions and/or fuel efficiency instead. Detuning in the early '70s was in response to early gov't regulations on the subject and, ironically, made the engines less efficient in the process.

 

[Texasmark]

And neither Chevy 400 was related to the earlier Chevy W-head 348/409 series.

Detuning refers to changing specifications for fuel delivery, timing, valve dimensions, compression ratio, and such details that had been optimized for performance but were changed to optimize emissions and/or fuel efficiency instead. Detuning in the early '70s was in response to early gov't regulations on the subject and, ironically, made the engines less efficient in the process.

The 400 was a decal on top of the carburetor air filter top cover. The valve covers were fat, not skinny like on the small block owing to the fact that the intake and exhaust valves weren't in a common line but intakes were in their row and exhausts in theirs....sorta like a Hemi valve arrangement but that engine was not a Hemi, requiring the wider head and valve cover as a result of the offset. I don't recall anything but orangish/redish paint being on the valve covers.

 

[da.bees]

Me and two other guys tinkered with sb chevys in the 80s as a sideline for extra cash. We bought/traded for cars which people had spent a lot of money on without getting performance they expected. Using knowledge of one of my pardners, we made those car perform like original owner had tried. People in that period wanted good acceleration getting onto freeway, bury the needle occasionally for the thrill and decent fuel milage daily driving. Small valves, short duration, small 2 barrel, dual plane and long runners are ideal for torque giving that "good seat of pants" feel. We bought used heads, spread bore carbs and dual plane intakes for peanuts, sold high performance parts at profit. The key to low end torque with better than average high rpm power is pump-up lifters and large secondary bores coming in at right time. Had I understood this in the 60s and 70s I could have saved a lot of money while having more fun. All that is out the window now with electronics leaving old school in a cloud of dust on all fronts.

 

[Mark-Mi]

And neither Chevy 400 was related to the earlier Chevy W-head 348/409 series.

Detuning refers to changing specifications for fuel delivery, timing, valve dimensions, compression ratio, and such details that had been optimized for performance but were changed to optimize emissions and/or fuel efficiency instead. Detuning in the early '70s was in response to early gov't regulations on the subject and, ironically, made the engines less efficient in the process.

GM sold the 400 small block well past 1973.
AS far as HP 1970 was the height of HP. After that it was dished pistons resulting in low compression and smog equipment. All down hill from 1971.

 

[Harold Hubbard]

My college roommate had a 64? Impala with a 409, four speed, dual quad carburetors, all the goodies.
He said those carburetors were like having a toilet on top of the engine, step on the gas, and it flushed your wallet.
It ran hi-test gas, 39.0 cents a gallon, and lots of it.
“ Pass anything on the road, except a gas station.”
Kept the tire store in business too.

 

[jddrawbar]

My college roommate had a 64? Impala with a 409, four speed, dual quad carburetors, all the goodies.
He said those carburetors were like having a toilet on top of the engine, step on the gas, and it flushed your wallet.
It ran hi-test gas, 39.0 cents a gallon, and lots of it.
“ Pass anything on the road, except a gas station.”
Kept the tire store in business too.

The 348 was in cars from '58-'61 and offered in trucks thru '64. I personally never saw a 348 in a 1/2 or 3/4 ton truck. I knew some dump trucks had them.....