Bent PTO Shaft Blues

[OldFart187]

My TO30 has a bent PTO shaft. Although I bought a new shaft assembly, there seems to be some damage to the front bearing support. Here's the story:

I discovered the bent shaft after removing it to repair the hydraulic pump. On installation, the pump/cover wouldn't move forward the last 1/4". It hung up on the right side between the side tang of the front PTO bearing support and the transmission case around the up-down pressure tube. The interference is about 1/16 - 1/8", possibly due to a bent PTO bearing support or base, the bulkhead between the transmission and pump housing cavity. It would only take a tiny deformation there to throw things off.

The front PTO bearing housing side tangs are a slip fit into the inside vertical faces of the pump ends. If I installed 0.040 shim washers under the right side bolts of the PTO support housing it would shift the tangs 0.060 to the left. That might do the job. Another method would be to grind off 0.060 from the right tang and somehow put a 0.060 shim on the left side.

Any thoughts?

On an aside, I removed the front PTO bearing support but it won't go back in because the shaft end (with the male cone of the tapered roller bearing) dropped and won't go back to the center of the housing bore. I assume it's just a matter of getting the gearbox gears in mesh. Or is it?

 

[Ray,IN]

It's been perhaps 50 years ago I had to cut the bent PTO shaft in half to remove it from a HF TO20. I've long forgotten the hows and whys of removing the two sections and installing a new shaft. Best of luck!

 

[OldFart187]

Any memories of the installation of the replacement shaft?

 

[OldFart187]

Sorry, I just reread your reply, no memories.

 

[soaked]

Ive not had a Ferguson, but have had many old Fords.

I see on this site a T0-30 pto shaft is the same part # as 8ns use.

Did you test fit the new pto shaft to see if the splined end fit all the way through the pump? Believe I remember some splines on 8ns were not made properly, and needed filing, or were returned.

A second thought is some side cover gaskets for 8n pumps are two thick. Makes the pump too wide to fit in the hole. Narrower gaskets were the solution.
Could try a search on the 9n 2n 8n forum if others dont chime in.

 

[OldFart187]

My Ferguson TO30 uses o rings to seal the side covers so the side plates are metal to metal. Thanks for the tip on the Ford forums.

 

[soaked]

Not side covers, pump valve chambers.

I see the pump side chambers for your TO-30, are also the same as 8n.
They use a paper gasket.
Some aftermarket chambers themselves were too wide also.

Click on to see

J

Thread 'Hydraulic Valve New Chamber Thickness'

Dec 8, 2010

I got a hydraulic pump rebuild kit with new chambers for my 52 8N. Once reassembled the pump is now too wide across the chambers to fit into the belly of the tractor. I know this has been discussed before, but I was not clear on whether to grind down the outside of the chambers slightly or try to grind off the inside edge of the tractor belly to allow the pump to install? What is the preferred method?

If I take the chambers to a machine shop how much should I ask them to remove from each chamber?

Would grinding the outside edge of the chambers slightly weaken them fatally...

• Jimps
• Replies: 25
• Forum: Ford 9N, 2N & 8N

When repairing your pump, did you replace side valve chambers?

 

[OldFart187]

I checked the parts diagram and it doesn’t show any gasket just the O-rings for the side covers.

At this point, I’m thinking about shimming the PTO Support housing rather than machining the tangs because this will center the housing rather than assemble it crooked.

 

[soaked]

Orings not paper, got it.
Is pto bearing support housing ( pto shifter) also the trans countershaft bearing housing? Would shimming
foul up the bearing alignment for the countershaft?

 

[OldFart187]

Possibly. I'm not sure of the PTO shaft drive arrangement in the transmission but if the existing setup is actually bent and misaligns the tapered roller bearing, that's bad for the transmission too. Assuming that's the problem, getting the PTO housing and female tapered roller bearing back to the center should help the transmission gear mesh too as well as the forward transmission shaft bearing. There are three metal shim gaskets between my front PTO housing and transmission bulkhead totalling 0.035. Their purpose is to set the bearing end play. If I add 0.040 shim washers on one side to recenter the housing I'll remove those washers. That will result in a centered housing with a 0.0025 increase in end play, probably an insignificant change. One other concern is the housing pilot clearance. If it's too tight, it will restrict the allowable tilt angle. If that's the case, I'll plan to put a slight taper on the male pilot.

 

[soaked]

Have you tried to find a replacement housing assy?
I'm not sure if a Ford N series interchanges or not.
Here is a 8n 718

If mount yours at an angle to the countershaft gears dentals, will it couple properly?
8n countershaft

 

[OldFart187]

Thanks for the pics. My TO30 housing looks identical to yours. I see no signs of damage to mine so I wonder if the problem is a small amount of distortion in the bulkhead between the transmission housing and pump housing. It would only take about 0.020 to kick the housing end tangs over by 0.060 or more. My countershaft end looks identical to yours but again, there's no visible damage in mine. If the problem is indeed a deformed bulkhead, swapping parts won't help. Even if the problem is deformation of the parts, shimming should still work.

 

[OldFart187]

A more radical approach that might actually work is to put a heavy steel bar up and down between the top and bottom housing edges and use a long heavy pry bar.

 

[soaked]

I like your drawing
No visable damage. Hmm.
Is your top cover off, giving a clear view of the starboard housing ear not fitting into the pump?
Pump would fit it housing wasnt installed?

 

[OldFart187]

Yes, pump cover is off. interference is clearly visible between the "starboard" ear and pump housing. Less clear is possible interference between the pump housing and transmission housing and vertical pressure tube at the bottom.
Excellent question if the pump will fit without the front PTO housing in place. I need to try that.

 

[soaked]

Wonder if you install the housing, then back off the 4 mounting bolts a bit, so it can be wiggled, then fit the pump in, then tighten up the bolts?
8n pump and pto shifter. Ears barely fit.

 

[OldFart187]

I think you've hit on the best approach to try. Once together and with the bolts tightened, the parts will hit but likely be close enough to the center. The lower PTO housing bolts will be damn hard to reach but my old tractor buddy and I have gotten into some pretty tight spaces.

 

[soaked]

Could take the housing and see it it does fit into the pump, while the pump is just sitting on the floor, and not heavy.

 

[Ray,IN]

Sorry, I just reread your reply, no memories.

While eating dinner I did recall a bit. My PTO shaft was not bent, it was twisted from dad running over any size tree the little tractor would ride down, then bush hogging it off. That PTO shaft was the smaller one that required an increase adapter to run the bush hog.

 

[OldFart187]

Problem solved! I had removed the pump covers and put them back on the wrong sides. My bad. I would have guessed there would be locating pins to prevent this but apparently not. The pump sides have thinner flanges on the front that make installation of the pump / lower cover straightforward. Now I'm struggling getting my new 3/8 spline PTO shaft in.

Thanks to all for your kind thoughts and support.