Bubba strikes again

TheOldHokie

Well-known Member
I just received another oil pump to rebuild and I thought I would share some more thoughts and experiences. In a previous thread we discussed problems with some of the aftermarket rebuild kits -specifically the APN6600B kits for pumps with "3/4 inch" gears. The pump I have in hand uses the original 9/16 inch gears - kit number APN6600A.

When I took the pump out of the shipping container it was obvious someone had already tried to rebuild it. The old gears were loose in the box and I measured them before I even started on the pump. Face width of the old gears was .555/.554 - .007/.008 under the nominal 9/16 that everybody talks about. The shaft on the drive gear also measured .559 - .003 under the nominal 9/16" it is supposed to be. When the gears were placed in the housing there was a perceptible ledge were the gears sat below the top of the pump cavity. At that point I was pretty sure the rebuild kit that had been used was one of the "cheapies".

Next I had a look at the housing. The bore in the bushing was clearly off center and out of plumb. The shaft fit was reasonably tight leading me to believe that Bubba and his reamer had struck again. When I was checking the fit of the gears in the housing I had also noticed that one side of the drive gear sat considerably lower that the other. That is likely because the botched bore in the bushing caused the gear to run cocked in the pump cavity wearing into one side of the bottom and likely taking some off the wall in the process. That damage is not repairable and we'll have to wait until the pump is properly rebuilt and back in the tractor to see if it causes significant problems.

bubbastrikesagain.jpg


I was asked to supply the new parts for this rebuild and I purchased the kit from nnalert's - here is a picture of what I received. No indication of manufacturerer anywhere on it but FWIW it does say Made in USA on the card...

APN6600A_good.jpg


I opened it up and measured the drive shaft - .562 on the money. Both gears also measured .562 and except for the previously mentioned wear on the bottom of the pump cavity sit dead flush with the top.

Two morals to this story:[list:cbc871a4f8][*:cbc871a4f8]Botching an oil pump rebuild can and likely will cause damage to the pump housing[*:cbc871a4f8]Avoid the "cheapie" kits unless you can verify the parts are properly made. Always measure the new parts before you waste your time putting a pump together with bogus parts.[/list:u:cbc871a4f8]Tomorrow I'll put it all back together with the new parts and see what the running clearances look like. Hopefully it will provide the owner with acceptable service...

TOH
 
Way back when "N"s were new or not very old Ford had a service tool to rebuild oil pump. It consisted of guide that bolted to pump hsg ,bushing driver and reamer. If I remember the bushing was not always reamed/bored in exact center.
 
(quoted from post at 21:45:21 11/08/17) Way back when "N"s were new or not very old Ford had a service tool to rebuild oil pump. It consisted of guide that bolted to pump hsg ,bushing driver and reamer. If I remember the bushing was not always reamed/bored in exact center.

On a good pump and gears there is about .002/.003 tip clearance between gear and cavity wall. That drive shaft bore better be on center AND plumb to the cavity - if it's not the gears are either going to bind or rub on teh pump cavity.

The hand held jig was used to center the hand reamer. My "jig" is a little heavier but the centering and reaming process is the same:

[list:b58c20742a][*:b58c20742a]The bore in the housing is the reference surface for the reaming operation. [*:b58c20742a]After removing the old bushing you use the centering tool that came with your jig to center the jig over the bore in the housing and secure it with the cover bolts. In my case that's a precision ground 1-2-3 block placed under the milled face of teh pump and a table clamp[*:b58c20742a]Then you install the new bushing without disturbing the jig and ream it using the guide tube on the jig. In my case that's the quill on the mill.[/list:u:b58c20742a] The resulting bore may not be centered in the bushing walls but it is centered and plumb to the bore in the housing which is what is critical.

TOH

CenterHousingBore.jpg


ReamCenteredBushing.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 00:57:10 11/09/17) Something like this ?
https://www.amazon.com/Oil-Pump-Tool-Ford-Tractor/dp/B00BW5P8S6

Yes. The longer stepped bar in the picture is the centering pin and the shorter one is a drift for removing the old bushing:
  • [*:65831ff02c]Remove old bushing with drift[*:65831ff02c]Insert larger end of centering pin into pump bore and use smaller end to center reamer guide hole in jig over bore.[*:65831ff02c]Secure jig to pump using bolts provided[*:65831ff02c]Remove centering pin and drive/press new bushing into pump bore being careful to not move jig[*:65831ff02c]Insert reamer through guide hole in jig and ream bushing to size[/list:o:65831ff02c]Resized bore in bushing is now centered and plumb with bore in pump housing.

    TOH
 
(quoted from post at 23:57:10 11/08/17) Something like this ?
https://www.amazon.com/Oil-Pump-Tool-Ford-Tractor/dp/B00BW5P8S6
I especially like the reviews of that tool on Amazon. One guy rips on it talking about having nothing but problems. The other guy just says it worked great.
 

Its hard to put much faith in reviews a bad review can be brought back and you don't know the merit behind a good review...

My lack of success I racked up to my lack of ability I don't have a problem admitting that but I don't claim to be a Navy trained expert on everything are learned for some old timer that was as dumb as I am... They live among us :(

Sometimes the least you know and the more you are willing to put into trying to learn how the deal works you are better off than a so called expert are to put it another way everyone you meet knows something you don't know... We all fight out battles in a different way some find it easier to just play the blame game some jump right in and find the solution to the problem is more satisfying...

This subject has got'N DEEP I spec TOH would have never dreamed he would one day be this deep into the fundamentals of a N oil pump...

Back to the Amazon reviews YES the sellers have bought back (paid me to remove them) a few of my bad reviews... I have not seen any money yet tho...
 
(quoted from post at 22:21:56 11/09/17)
Its hard to put much faith in reviews a bad review can be brought back and you don't know the merit behind a good review...

My lack of success I racked up to my lack of ability I don't have a problem admitting that but I don't claim to be a Navy trained expert on everything are learned for some old timer that was as dumb as I am... They live among us :(

Sometimes the least you know and the more you are willing to put into trying to learn how the deal works you are better off than a so called expert are to put it another way everyone you meet knows something you don't know... We all fight out battles in a different way some find it easier to just play the blame game some jump right in and find the solution to the problem is more satisfying...

This subject has got'N DEEP I spec TOH would have never dreamed he would one day be this deep into the fundamentals of a N oil pump...

Back to the Amazon reviews YES the sellers have bought back (paid me to remove them) a few of my bad reviews... I have not seen any money yet tho...

Waxing philosophic today Hobo. Sure sign you are mellowing with age ;-)

TOH

PS> Study of the N-series oil pump has been my lifelong ambition :roll:
 

Hi TOH,

I would like to know if you can rebuild an 8N oil pump for me. After reading your post I figured it would be much safer to have you do it than to do it myself. I have a rebuild kit which has the shaft with the gear on it, the two internal gears and the bushing. Is this something you would be able to do? Thank you, Bill
 
I bought an 8N 9/16? gear oil pump rebuild kit from Yesterday?s and it came in the same see-thru
package as the one TOH showed in his picture with parts rattling around. The drive gear shaft
was all knicked up. Wasn?t usable like that. They cheerfully sent me another one right away no-
charge. It came in different packaging altogether, but the one gear that sits on the stationary shaft
in the pump body was tight going on the shaft. Couldn?t use it like that. At the same time, I
bought an OPT20 tool with reamer. When I placed the tool on the pump body and put the
supplied alignment shaft thru the tool and the pump body bore and went to tighten the tool
mounting screws, the shaft bound up. The tool bore was not even close to being plumb with the
pump bore. Between the two defective pump rebuild kits I got, one of the stationary shaft gears
seems to fit. I am now wondering where I can get a kit that is even usable. Also, I just asked
TOH if he could do the rebuild for me. Also, after reading his posts, I am going to measure all the
parts before I do anything else.
 
(quoted from post at 00:49:02 01/15/18)
Hi TOH,

I would like to know if you can rebuild an 8N oil pump for me. After reading your post I figured it would be much safer to have you do it than to do it myself. I have a rebuild kit which has the shaft with the gear on it, the two internal gears and the bushing. Is this something you would be able to do? Thank you, Bill

Sure - I do them on a regular basis but I will be leaving town this Friday and won't be back until the 28th.

Send the pump body without the pickup tube to me along with the rebuild kit you purchased. If you would like to send the jig you bought along with it I'll evaluate it and see if there is anything I can do to correct the problems with it. I use USPS flat rate padded envelopes for shipping - $7.50 each way. I put the parts in a padded envelope placed inside a second padded envelope for extra padding and strength.

TOH
 
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