By pass filter

[Northvale PA]

This topic may have been discussed before but here goes, my JD 4230 has a M&W turbo with a by pass oil filter piped to the turbo. Standard practice. I noticed the oil stays cleaner than my 4010 and 4020 diesels. Doing some research experts agree that combustion soot in the oil acts to wear engine components faster. JD filters get down to 25 microns. WIX by pass filters get down to 10 microns. Here’s my question: do you have a by pass filter on your tractor, with or without turbo? Does it make sense to pipe one in? I think it can be easily done for under $100 and seems like cleaner oil is all upside. Thoughts?

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I would like to see the piping of this setup. I don't understand how bypass oil can be plumbed to the turbo. Oil is part of what cools the turbo, you can't just dribble it in there. A substantial flow is needed.

But, I haven't seen everything, maybe this is some modern technology.

 

[wore out]

I would like to see the piping of this setup. I don't understand how bypass oil can be plumbed to the turbo. Oil is part of what cools the turbo, you can't just dribble it in there. A substantial flow is needed.

But, I haven't seen everything, maybe this is some modern technology.

The earlier M&W turbos used a felt disc filter in a canister, the later ones used a spin-on filter.

Even though the "media" (in the cartridge version, for sure) may be of the same type used in some bypass filters they are plumbed in as "full flow" filters, filtering all the oil that goes to the turbo bearings.

 

[Northvale PA]

I would like to see the piping of this setup. I don't understand how bypass oil can be plumbed to the turbo. Oil is part of what cools the turbo, you can't just dribble it in there. A substantial flow is needed.

But, I haven't seen everything, maybe this is some modern technology.

Not to sound snarky but M&W turbos are 1970’s technology. Mine uses a Wix 51052. Here’s a diagram on line for an IH 806. No. 40 is the by pass filter piped into the turbo. The full flow filter feeds the entire engine. The by pass feeds the small turbo bearings without robbing the engine.

 

[wore out]

Not to sound snarky but M&W turbos are 1970’s technology. Mine uses a Wix 51052. Here’s a diagram on line for an IH 806. No. 40 is the by pass filter piped into the turbo. The full flow filter feeds the entire engine. The by pass feeds the small turbo bearings without robbing the engine.

NOT sure why you are calling it a "bypass", it's simply a lube line from the main oil gallery to the turbo and DOES "steal" a little filtered oil from what is available to the engine bearings, WHAT does it "bypass"?

 

[Fritz Maurer]

The earlier M&W turbos used a felt disc filter in a canister, the later ones used a spin-on filter.

Even though the "media" (in the cartridge version, for sure) may be of the same type used in some bypass filters they are plumbed in as "full flow" filters, filtering all the oil that goes to the turbo bearings.

well, thanks guess I don't need to finish my question! You did indeed make it clear.

 

[used red MN]

Not sure how old are, but you used to see larger bypass filters on semi tractors. Often they were chrome and hung off of the frame rail, Lube-finer was the usual name brand. This guy shows one in this video, but he really doesn’t know much about them. Large bypass filter video
You don’t see them anymore because if you have a larger diesel engine with two oil filters of different part numbers or the size of them is different most likely one of them is a bypass type filter. Filtering a percentage of the oil through a much finer filter media.

 

[DoubleO7]

NOT sure why you are calling it a "bypass", it's simply a lube line from the main oil gallery to the turbo and DOES "steal" a little filtered oil from what is available to the engine bearings, WHAT does it "bypass"?

I was wondering that also.
A bypass filter (a filter with a built-in pressure activated bypass valve) allows unfiltered oil to keep flowing beyond a stuffed up, over worked filter.
AFAIK

 

[used red MN]

I was wondering that also.
A bypass filter (a filter with a built-in pressure activated bypass valve) allows unfiltered oil to keep flowing beyond a stuffed up, over worked filter.
AFAIK

You are confusing a full flow filter with a bypass valve or bypass capabilities with an actual bypass filter that a percentage of oil bled off of the oil system through a predetermined size orifice. Farmall letter series and Ford 8Ns and many other early engines used these.

 

[kencombs]

Not sure how old are, but you used to see larger bypass filters on semi tractors. Often they were chrome and hung off of the frame rail, Lube-finer was the usual name brand. This guy shows one in this video, but he really doesn’t know much about them. Large bypass filter video
You don’t see them anymore because if you have a larger diesel engine with two oil filters of different part numbers or the size of them is different most likely one of them is a bypass type filter. Filtering a percentage of the oil through a much finer filter media.

Even smaller diesels have that two filter systems. I've owned a couple of Mitsubishi trucks 3.8l turbo diesels. Both had block mounted spin-ons with different part numbers. Bypass because the only time oil flows through them is when the oil pressure is over the setting of the bypass valve, then when it opens the oil not needed to lube the engine gets refiltered.

Older engines usually just used a orifice to rob a little oil for the filter, others like old Mopar flatheads used a bypass valve to flow just excess oil.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Sorry for derailing your question, so here is something maybe you can use.

I don't know whether the 4010 or 20 are turbocharged, this could play a part in how fast the oil gets dirty. Soot is from more fuel injected than there is oxygen available to burn it; it is ashes from incompletely burned fuel. A turbo adds more air for a given shot of fuel so it burns cleaner which leads to cleaner oil.

If the above tractors ARE turbocharged, then they may have had the fuel delivery increased at some point in their lifetime, and may be at the point where we are not getting enough oxygen again.

Or, if the compression is down, the tractor will smoke black under load, because half of the oxygen intended to burn the fuel is now in the crankcase or blown out through leaking valves.

Ultimately, I don't think adding another oil filter alone would make much difference in how fast the oil gets dirty. Might be time to order a couple valve cover gaskets for the two dirty tractors and do a full tune-up / timing procedure on them.

 

[Northvale PA]

NOT sure why you are calling it a "bypass", it's simply a lube line from the main oil gallery to the turbo and DOES "steal" a little filtered oil from what is available to the engine bearings, WHAT does it "bypass"?

Wix 51052 is a by pass filter. They call it that, not me. But it’s also a 10 micron filter. Does my 4230 turbo oil filter keep my oil cleaner? Yes, it must. Should I consider installing a similar by pass oil filter on my other tractors? Good question.

 

[wore out]

Sorry for derailing your question, so here is something maybe you can use.

I don't know whether the 4010 or 20 are turbocharged, this could play a part in how fast the oil gets dirty. Soot is from more fuel injected than there is oxygen available to burn it; it is ashes from incompletely burned fuel. A turbo adds more air for a given shot of fuel so it burns cleaner which leads to cleaner oil.

If the above tractors ARE turbocharged, then they may have had the fuel delivery increased at some point in their lifetime, and may be at the point where we are not getting enough oxygen again.

Or, if the compression is down, the tractor will smoke black under load, because half of the oxygen intended to burn the fuel is now in the crankcase or blown out through leaking valves.

Ultimately, I don't think adding another oil filter alone would make much difference in how fast the oil gets dirty. Might be time to order a couple valve cover gaskets for the two dirty tractors and do a full tune-up / timing procedure on them.

We are talking here about a filter the M&W turbos were installed with that filters the flow of oil from a port in the oil gallery to the turbocharger bearing.

Here's a photo of the later, spin-on version of the M&W-supplied turbo oil filter.

 

[DoubleO7]

Wix 51052 is a by pass filter. They call it that, not me. But it’s also a 10 micron filter. Does my 4230 turbo oil filter keep my oil cleaner? Yes, it must. Should I consider installing a similar by pass oil filter on my other tractors? Good question.

I may be wrong again, but that 51052 filter does nothing different than thousands of other built-in-bypass valve oil filters. That 51052 has 5/8-18 threads and WIX only shows seven filters with that thread. A real oddball thread size for spin on oil filters.

When WIX shows it to be a "bypass" filter, they mean that when the filter element clogs up with dirt, the pressure relief vale will open to allow unfiltered oil to bypass the filtering and continue to where filtered oil goes.

It fits the M&W filter base where there is a dedicated outlet to send filtered oil to the turbo via tubing or pipe or hose.

You could likely get a run-of-the-mill cast aluminum remote oil filter bracket from Summit, etc. for cheap.
Most all of them have dual inlets and dual outlets. And the can be had that hold a pair of filters also.
Then you can get a much more common spin on filter(s) made with more common thread like 13/16 inch.

 

[wore out]

I may be wrong again, but that 51052 filter does nothing different than thousands of other built-in-bypass valve oil filters. That 51052 has 5/8-18 threads and WIX only shows seven filters with that thread. A real oddball thread size for spin on oil filters.

When WIX shows it to be a "bypass" filter, they mean that when the filter element clogs up with dirt, the pressure relief vale will open to allow unfiltered oil to bypass the filtering and continue to where filtered oil goes.

It fits the M&W filter base where there is a dedicated outlet to send filtered oil to the turbo via tubing or pipe or hose.

You could likely get a run-of-the-mill cast aluminum remote oil filter bracket from Summit, etc. for cheap.
Most all of them have dual inlets and dual outlets. And the can be had that hold a pair of filters also.
Then you can get a much more common spin on filter(s) made with more common thread like 13/16 inch.

The spin-on WIX filters mentioned here are so-called because they have a cotton waste (or similar) medium in them rather than a pleated paper element. They also have a small restrictor orifice in them to limit flow "to sump" when used for their intended purpose, as a conventional bypass filter. They do NOT have an internal bypass pressure relief, as it would NOT be required for their intended use.

I have not checked to see if there is a valid cross from the M&W filter to WIX filters in that series.

I have a 4020 with a M&W turbo and it uses the canister filter with the stacked felt discs, so I have not had to deal with a "cross" on it. I DO have a file on my computer as to what people are subbing, I will check that out later.

 

[DoubleO7]

The spin-on WIX filters mentioned here are so-called because they have a cotton waste (or similar) medium in them rather than a pleated paper element. They also have a small restrictor orifice in them to limit flow "to sump" when used for their intended purpose, as a conventional bypass filter. They do NOT have an internal bypass pressure relief, as it would NOT be required for their intended use.

I have not checked to see if there is a valid cross from the M&W filter to WIX filters in that series.

I have a 4020 with a M&W turbo and it uses the canister filter with the stacked felt discs, so I have not had to deal with a "cross" on it. I DO have a file on my computer as to what people are subbing, I will check that out later.

This is a screen shot of the specs for a WIX 51052

And no drain back valve.

 

[wore out]

This is a screen shot of the specs for a WIX 51052

View attachment 107793View attachment 107794

And no drain back valve.

GOTTCHA!

I should have downloaded that to make large enough to see that part # on my phone! The WIX bypass filter series that is commonly mentioned is 51050, 51051, and 51320, they have the same thread, ARE a "bypass filter" with an orifice an NO bypass valve.

I should have everyone thoroughly confused by now!

 

[DoubleO7]

GOTTCHA!

I should have downloaded that to make large enough to see that part # on my phone! The WIX bypass filter series that is commonly mentioned is 51050, 51051, and 51320, they have the same thread, ARE a "bypass filter" with an orifice an NO bypass valve.

I should have everyone thoroughly confused by now!

IS there more than one M&W filter number?

 

[wore out]

IS there more than one M&W filter number?

View attachment 107800

Here's the cartridge filter on my 4020, the I.D. tag is faded, so the # isn't visible, below is what the filter LOOKS LIKE.

Possibly General Filter 2A710.

 

[DoubleO7]

View attachment 107801
Here's the cartridge filter on my 4020, the I.D. tag is faded, so the # isn't visible, below is what the filter LOOKS LIKE.View attachment 107802
Possibly General Filter 2A710.

Yes, that is the old canister type, not the newer spin on type M&W #4E023