Cab Heater for 4020 late model

[sandhills-elect]

I am going to put cab heat in my 4020 late model, and have read all past talk. I see there is more that one way to do it. I have late model with front and rear bypass tubes, and only two ports on the water pump one out the top and one out the side to run along motor to the oil cooler. I want to know the absolute best way to do it. I think that i should hook a T" into the front bypass with one, and hook into one of the hex headed plugs out of the motor head on the right side or passenger side. Would this be the best way. Thanks for all the help Brent!

 

[sandhills-elect]

I forgot to say, i have a block heater so i don't have a tank heater everyone talks about.

 

[Tx Jim]

Looking at parts schematic it appears that one hose attaches to top of water pump and other hose is on the LH side of engine and goes to a un-identifiable location.

 

[DONMYEIL]

That will work but I would return water to the block drain and "T" into the front bypass.That will put the hottest water in the heater. Mother Deere hooked up her cabs this way as well.

 

[buickanddeere]

High temp/high pressure water from just prior to the stat is the line to the cab heater inlet.
Return line from cab to the water pump inlet for lowest pressure.

 

[sandhills-elect]

Thanks guys answer my question completely, the more i read the other post the more i was confused. thanks again much appreciated!!! Brent

 

[Fern(Mi)]

Hard to see, but perhaps your 4020 has a radiator water return fitting way down under as well, between the frame channels. That's where we've found them twice before. Might be worth looking. Water heater feed is either on or very near top of water pump.
The 110v electric block heater element tank is plumbed between side of block and top or side of head.
I'll look again at evening chore time.
Fernan

 

[buickanddeere]

Why would you supply the cab heater with water straight off the discharge of the water pump?
That is cold rad water prior to being heated by the engine.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 14:52:28 02/06/11) Why would you supply the cab heater with water straight off the discharge of the water pump?
That is cold rad water prior to being heated by the engine.

It's attached to water pump for circulation through the heater core.

Plus after thermostat opens at 190 degrees where is any cold water in the cooling system?


IIRC older GM(60's-80's) PU heater hose attached to water pump.

 

[buickanddeere]

Water just prior to the stat is much warmer
than coolant returning from the rad in winter.
190F going to the cab beats 120F rad return water.
The cab heater would supply heat much sooner
taking coolant just prior to the stat. Rather than
waiting for the pump outlet temps to rise.
If the cab heater was plumbed in series with the
coolant bypass line. That should work well enough.

You Texans are more experts on air conditioning
than heating.

 

[Fern(Mi)]

I'm not going to get into an argument over this how to plumb a JD 4020 cab heater. All I know is it works. Hot water comes off top of water pump to the cab heater and returns to under side the radiator. All I know is it works. I don’t care beyond that.
As for our cold country block heater, its plumbed from low on left side block the water line passing left to right under the same water pump to a 110v block heater plumbed into right side of the head.
If you really want to know, we've got two 90 hp JD's. They're paid for and manage to do more than they are worth for us. Personally I prefer a real tractor. We've four much better 1850D Oliver's that get the real use around here. While I've learned how to drive and handle all their idiotsinkrawsees (both makes) I get along with them.
Bottom line, while the JD's deliver 20gal/min hydraulic oil when they're working? The Ollie's 17gal/min work all the time. The JD's disappointment is not without my stopping (JD) shifting into neutral, letting the clutch out, to wait for the hydraulics pressure to catch up and again work.
As for the cab heaters. They work and more importantly I don't care how, as long as they do their intended uses.
Fernan

 

[Tx Jim]

Fern(Mi)
buickanddeere will never admit he may be(IS) wrong but he's excellent at changing the subject or his answer to something different.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 16:37:39 02/06/11)You Texans are more experts on air conditioning than heating.

That is correct but that doesn't mean I'm unfamiliar of heaters!!!!!!! I still like for my heater to blow warm air when it's cold here after the thermostat opens and the coolant in the cooling system reaches 190 plus degrees.

BTW did you look up how the heater is plumbed on a early GM PU?

 

[buickanddeere]

That was a lot of info about Olivers and finaces to say you are happy with sub par performance.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 12:55:23 02/07/11) That was a lot of info about Olivers and finaces to say you are happy with sub par performance.

Here we go again. You trying to say I said or implied something just like my EX-WIFE when things aren't turning out as you want. She trained me very well to clarify what I stated. You can change it around all you care to but you should know that's not what I stated but you don't want to admit it.

KEEP the SMOKE SCREEN RISING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW what caused you to bring up Olivers,finances and sub par performance in this thread??

Dang and now your spell check didn't catch you misspelled a
word ( finaces) YE HAW

I need to go check my heater because weatherman stated 80% chance of snow on Wednesday. YUK

 

[buickanddeere]

Don't ask me why Fern brought up the Olivers and finances.

 

[buickanddeere]

Last old GM pickup I looked at the heater core was plumbed correctly from the factory.
The 1st warm coolant the engine made was tapped from an intake manifold port just prior to the stat.Coolant returned direct from the heater core into the water pump inlet.
That way the defroster blew warm air long before the stat opened.
The coolant is always hotter just upstream of the stat. Than it is taking rad coolant, particularly in the winter.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 15:44:47 02/07/11) Last old GM pickup I looked at the heater core was plumbed correctly from the factory.
The 1st warm coolant the engine made was tapped from an intake manifold port just prior to the stat.Coolant returned direct from the heater core into the water pump inlet. That way the defroster blew warm air long before the stat opened. The coolant is always hotter just upstream of the stat. Than it is taking rad coolant, particularly in the winter.

Then this statement you made is INACCURATE and I quote you [/quote]

BTW I re-read Fern's post and saw no reference to finances. Nice to see you repaired your spell check!!!!!!!!!!!!.

 

[Fern(Mi)]

LOL

All in how you look at it. (smiles)

Fernan

 

[buickanddeere]

Here's a quote from Fern, it's prior to. And I was the one asking why Fern was talking about Olivers and money. When cab hetaing is the topic.

Quote" They're paid for and manage to do more than they are worth for us." Unquote. Then on about Olivers, hydraulics, pto and clutching.
What has that to do with cab heating?

Is there anybody here that doesn't know that coolant supplied to the cab heater from just prior to the thermostat? Is going to be higher temp and heat up sooner. Vs. coolant taken from the water pump discharge. Which is coolant that has just passed through the rad and been cooled.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 10:02:38 02/08/11) Here's a quote from Fern, it's prior to. And I was the one asking why Fern was talking about Olivers and money. When cab hetaing is the topic.

Quote" They're paid for and manage to do more than they are worth for us." Unquote. Then on about Olivers, hydraulics, pto and clutching.
What has that to do with cab heating?

Is there anybody here that doesn't know that coolant supplied to the cab heater from just prior to the thermostat? Is going to be higher temp and heat up sooner. Vs. coolant taken from the water pump discharge. Which is coolant that has just passed through the rad and been cooled.

b&d
What has that to do with cab heating? About as much as your contradictory statements. I was unaware that we(the posters) should conform to your rules and regulations. I was unaware that you were a moderator of this forum.

 

[oilburner350]

I find this odd. No 1-800 call Deere for the correct routing. No just buy a new tractor instead of plumbing the old one. Is it really that cold out?

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 14:15:56 02/08/11) I find this odd. No 1-800 call Deere for the correct routing. No just buy a new tractor instead of plumbing the old one. Is it really that cold out?

oilburner350
What's ironic is that his wife won't let him buy a new JD MFWD for himself.

 

[buickanddeere]

Please explain.

 

[oilburner350]

Tx Jim- I know he really likes to push the new MFWD tractors as long as he is not making the payments. However, consider this. Here in Michigan it’s the height of snow pushing season. We have a new 2010 Freightliner at work. This summer it ate 2 radiators. Bugs worked out right? Wrong. The other day during the blizzard clean up it goes into regeneration mode and does not come out. We had to remove the front plow and have another truck (1993 model) pick it up and take it back to the garage. The truck has been at the dealer now for almost a week. I don’t know if the new Deere tractors have multiplex wiring, but if they do I would run away like the plague. On the same truck some days you have to honk the horn and turn the 4 ways on the get the transmission to shift in high range. This truck is 450hp, or the same as an old 370hp N14.

Now I will get to hear how trucks have nothing to do with routing heater hoses on 4020’s or new MFWD tractors.

Edit- At least the truck had heat while in regen mode.

 

[buickanddeere]

Deere makes those 6 series tractors in Mexico. They are a plain simple tractor with the absolute minimum of electrical and electronics.
The smallest still has a rotary injection pump. Looking through the parts book perhapes it's possible to install the intercooler the other three larger tractors in the series have. And dial the injection rate up.
As for Tier III and IV engines. Common rail 25,000psi fuel injection, EGR, Cat convertors and particulate filters?
Deere and nobody else wanted to build them. You can thank the voters of Califonia and the Federal government that approved such regulations.
The sounds of silence is deafening from the liberals who voted for regulations. And from the Conservatives that didn't bother to vote at all.

 

[buickanddeere]

Mr. B&D knows to listen to Mrs. B&D if he know's what's good for him.

 

[Tx Jim]

oilburner350
The thing that amazes me about the new JD 6 series tractors is JD put the 276 CID engine in all all 5 models. I find it hard to believe that a 276 CID can lug with a 466 CID. Note that engine hp is 19 ponies more than pto hp

6230 Tractor (75 PTO hp)
MANUFACTURER
MODEL John Deere
6230 Tractor
Official Test
Engine
Manufacturer John Deere 4.5L PowerTech E (2 valve)
Aspiration 2 valve, fixed geometry turbocharger with air-to-water aftercooling
Cylinders/Displacement, cu. in. (liters) 4/276 (4.5)
Performance
Advertised PTO HP (kW) @ Rated RPM 76.0 (57) @ 2300 per SAE
Advertised Engine HP (kW) @ Rated Speed 95 (71.0) @ 2300 per ISO 97/68/EC

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 18:47:27 02/08/11) Mr. B&D knows to listen to Mrs. B&D if he know's what's good for him.

Evidently you're not listening WELL ENOUGH to Mrs B&D or the kitchen remodeling would be completed not waiting to get started. Also the posters inquiring about used JD tractors that you keep trying to persuade into buying the NEW electronic/plastic JD tractors maybe in the your same predicament.

"THEY ALSO NEED TO LISTEN TO THEIR WIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[oilburner350]

With advancements in technology, the newer smaller engines may last as long as the old 404 ond 466, but they are not the same animal. They give you horsepower figures, not torque. The torque curve would tell the story on the newer engine.

One thing they like to do now days is dual rate trucks. A truck will be at one horsepower level until something gets warm, then it derates.

The 2010 Freightliner has the Mercedes in it with a 13 speed and 4.68 gears. The blade truck loaded pulling a V-bottom out of our pit will crest the hill 16mph. If the gravel is wet it will crest it 12-14 mph. An old 3406 Cat at 425 hp with the same trans and rear gears will crest it 25-30.

 

[buickanddeere]

They run that same little 276 with turbo and intercooler in Tier I industrial applications with 173HP at 1800rpm.
The large frame 7000 series tractor use the six cylinder 414 version of that Dubuque 276 at well over 200HP.
I wouldn't worry about a 276TI in a 6 series mexican tractor making 140HP.
It's all about fuel efficiency and emissions.

 

[oilburner350]

Correct, manufactures didn’t ask to downsize engines. The government has helped with that.

Horsepower is calculated. Torque is measured. AGCO cranked an AD4.236 Perkins up to about 1,000hp. Should I run mine at that level?

Another fun thing with these new engines is the Variable Geometry Turbo. Have you priced one lately? The Turbo for an ISM Cummins runs in the $3000 range.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 10:17:30 02/09/11) They run that same little 276 with turbo and intercooler in Tier I industrial applications with 173HP at 1800rpm.
The large frame 7000 series tractor use the six cylinder 414 version of that Dubuque 276 at well over 200HP.
I wouldn't worry about a 276TI in a 6 series mexican tractor making 140HP.
It's all about fuel efficiency and emissions.

HP isn't all that matters, true torque helps. I bought a '66 Chevy PU new with a puny 220 hp 327 and I now own an '08 with a V8 that's rated at 295 HP. I'll promise you that the '66 327 would out pull,out run the '08 and do it on less gasoline!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's amazing how far technology has come and slid backwards.
b&d you mentioned intercooler ,if you'd read the spec's you'll se the JD 6230 has an air-to-water aftercooling, engines normally don't have 2. I suppose since you're still promoting NEW JD's you've contracted for the KITCHEN REMODEL!!!!!!!

 

[buickanddeere]

I was talking about the 6D series tractors. Not
the 6230 "plain" or premium etc.
Tractor manufactures seem to be in a race for
the most bells and whistles.
At least the 6D series from Mexico are a plain
boring mechanical almost everything. In particular
the 61100D which has a plain rotary injection
pump. Instead of the common rail used on the
6115D,6130D and 6140D.
The three higher HP tractor use an air to air
intercooler.
I'm wondering if the base 6110D which is turbo
but not intercooled.If there is room to drop in
the higher HP versions intercooler. Then dial the
injection rate up? The chassis appears otherwise
the same/similar across the four versions.
With a cab and M4WD. A base price of $55,000 on
a 6110D does compare to the 4020 and the value of
a dollar 30 years ago.
Or if really on a budget. An 2011 open station
$40,000 2WD 6110D with a wet clutch. Does rate
with a $10,000 1970 4020.
Compare to the price of a pickups, wages,housing
etc of the two eras.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 20:24:19 02/09/11) I was talking about the 6D series tractors. Not the 6230 "plain" or premium etc./quote]

We're not mind readers as JD make several different models in the "6" series tractors as I'm sure you're aware of but I for one don't care.

Let me quote your statement

(quoted from post at 18:45:27 02/08/11) Deere makes those 6 series tractors in Mexico. They are a plain simple tractor with the absolute minimum of electrical and electronics.

You failed to mention "6D" series.

With all your typing skills(smoke screen) you failed to answer my question.

I suppose since you're still promoting NEW JD's you've contracted for the KITCHEN REMODEL??????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[buickanddeere]

Maybe if enough new JD's are sold the commissions
will cover the cost of Mrs B&D's kitchen?

 

[Tx Jim]

That along with your commission check for your postings of JD's 800 phone # should leave enough $$$$$$$$ after the kitchen re-model to take your BOSS on a vacation.

And to think this all started because you promoted the sales of a New JD "6" series tractor after you told me one shouldn't attach a heater hose to a water pump!!!!!!!!

 

[buickanddeere]

Such a twisted web we weave.
The heater hose does connect to the water pump. The return line from the cab heater connects to the water pump inlet.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 10:27:10 02/10/11) Such a twisted web we weave.
The heater hose does connect to the water pump. The return line from the cab heater connects to the water pump inlet.

I'll quote my first statement on heater hose and water pump in this thread. I understand English language correctly but evidently you don't so here's what I stated and I quote me.
"Looking at parts schematic it appears that one hose attaches to top of water pump and other hose is on the LH side of engine and goes to a un-identifiable location."

I didn't name either one of the hoses a return hose and since you don't know both hoses go into tractor cab to the heater core.

You may continue your "SMOKE SCREEN"

 

[buickanddeere]

You are going have to be clearer on your directions.
Left of engine where? Low on the block the coolant will be little more than rad temp. High on the head the coolant will be the hottest.
Return line from the cab heater needs to be connected to low pressure,the pump inlet.
Connecting the return to the pump outlet makes little sense as that's the highest pressure in the cooling system and the lowest temp coolant.

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 14:08:05 02/10/11) You are going have to be clearer on your directions.
Left of engine where? Low on the block the coolant will be little more than rad temp. High on the head the coolant will be the hottest.
Return line from the cab heater needs to be connected to low pressure,the pump inlet.
Connecting the return to the pump outlet makes little sense as that's the highest pressure in the cooling system and the lowest temp coolant.

If I made it clearer you would still try your best to switch around what I stated by trying to make it appear that I didn't state what I just pointed out that I did. Amongst this HEAVY SMOKE SCREEN that you're putting up just when is the ETA of the re-modeling of the kitchen so that your WIFE will maybe permit you to buy one of the NEW JD MFWD's tractors that you keep trying to persuade other people on this forum into buying?? Let me guess------NEVER !!!!

 

[buickanddeere]

Lets talk about snow,ice instead and winter weather instead?

 

[Tx Jim]

(quoted from post at 15:50:34 02/10/11) Lets talk about snow,ice instead and winter weather instead?

Fine with me I hate snow and ice. When it gets cold it's good I know where my heater hoses need to be attached to WP and that smoke comes from way up north of the border and my wood stove pipe!!!!!!!! HE-He

 

[buickanddeere]

I should take a picture of the snowbanks along
here. Higher than the roof of the truck.
Some places the kids can't see the fields
through the school bus windows for snow banks.

 

[Tx Jim]

No need for pictures of deep snow as I saw more than I cared to while hauling 3 New JD tractors back to Texas from Waterloo,Ia in the late '80's. I'm just glad my heater works in my PU.