Call out to David G: Plus reasoning for CRP View!!

JD Seller

Well-known Member
First off I want to apologize to David G. for jumping on him/his post about the CRP program. I caught him in my ire against the CRP program. I will out line my reasoning for my view of the CRP program.

The program had far reaching unintended repercussions. Some of them where caused by the Federal government's reasoning for the program and others where caused at the local level.
The program was flawed in it's design. The stated purposes was to Conserve Soil, curtail over production and help wild life.

1) Removing the lower producing ground does not reduce production very much. The erodible ground usually was lower producing ground.

2) The guidelines where too easily manipulated at the local level. This allowed personal bias to "bend" the program to their benefit. An example of this is what ground was deemed "highly erodible". The local county Soil conservation agent had a very broad latitude in what he determined was highly erodible. This made the ground deemed "highly erodible: vary widely county to county. Even within the same county it did as well. IF you wanted to get into the program you could lobby/nag the local soil conservation agent into deeming your ground highly erodible. I will admit I did not want involve in this program or the ones that followed for highly erodible land. Basically some where willing to give up control of their ground for government money and some where not. Therefore little of my the ground I owned at that time was deemed "highly erodible".

3) The program turned out to be very anti young/beginning farmer. It did this in several ways. One being begin farmers usually start out with the less desirable land and work their way into better ground over time. The CRP program targeted the low quality ground. So it directly took land out of production from a larger percentage of younger farmers in general. Even if the ground did not go into the program it caused a sudden rise in rental rates that was not based on economic reasons related to production agriculture. This effect was not just on the lower quality ground either. It rippled through out the entire renal land market.

4) The rental rates where higher than the current rental rates of the time. This may not have been nation wide but it sure was around here. I have talked to other farmers from other states an they in general had the same experience. At the time local rates were in the $100-150 an acre range. CRP came in at $125-175 per acre. So with corn selling for $1.50-1.75 and a $20-40 dollar per acre profit, rents went up $25-50 over night. This added to the economic pressure already on many active farmers.

5) How did the rental rates get this way??? Local ASCS boards. The average county board member tends to be older. Therefore closer to retirement and usually a land owner will low to zero debt. These members had a personal bias towards wanting higher rental rates. Adding to the issue was they could easily have a personal gain by this. I know in my county ALL of the board members had land in the CRP program.

6) The program targeted passive farmers/landowners. The higher rental rates and them being government paid/guaranteed, really made this an attractive program for retired farmers and absentee landlords. So this was another way it put additional pressure on active farmers. Most farmers paying for ground could not use the program very successfully for economic reasons. A lot of farmers retired early to get the guaranteed payments. Remember this was in the mid to late 1980s times were tough.

7) Little protection for the actual person that was actively farming the ground. Yes you had to sign off for the landlord to put the land into the program. This was a smoke screen. The landlord could throw you off the land and "farm" it for ONE year. Then they could sign the ground up the next year. so you either paid a higher rent than the CRP program paid or you lost the ground. That being right then or one year later. Either way the landlord could go into the program without the renter having much say in it.

8) A few years in they added a "corn bonus" payment. This really hurt active farmers. This payment was $2 per bushel based on your ASCS established yield. This was paid upfront. So you could get higher rent PLUS this corn bonus. An example( real one too): farm sold for $600 an acre. The "new" owner put it into the CRP program. he got it in at $185 and acre rent. The ASCS corn yield was 110 BPA. So he got $405 and acre the very first year. Great investment IF you could afford the land. Very few active farmers could buy land. They were struggling just to survive the hard economic times. A lot of land went to absentee landowners in that time period.

9) The cost benefit for the resulting erosion control/reduction did not get a very good result for the dollars spent. Several reasons for this, with the biggest being whole field/farms bids being accepted. You take that land that was marginally erodible being deemed highly erodible this made a lot of acres in the program really did not gain much erosion reduction. Also every county wanted a certain percentage in the CRP. In counties with land that really did not erode much they deemed pretty flat farms erodible.

10) Another thing effected was the local economy. In some areas of the prairie states it decimated the local AG economy. Some of these had as high as 50% plus signed into the program. I know of agriculture supply businesses failing and towns drying up faster as result of the less active farming.


In my personal case I lost 500 acres of rented ground out of 1200 in a two year period. Then my rents on the remaining acres when up while corn and soybean prices stayed the same of dropped. This really added to the pressure for me to have to go get an off farm job to survive.

I think a better designed program would be better for all involved. Target the really erodible ground. Filter strips being an excellent example of good things. Severely limit whole farm/field sign ups. The past CRP did help wild life. Make that a separate program. A field in the middle of grain country with little wild life around is not really going to help much. Land with wild life around will get a much better result.

Whatever program there is it will have faults. This is one reason to NOT have any type of these kind of programs. The government really should not be this involved in our lives.
 
An excellent well thought out posting. Just another example of federal government trying to micro manage society which never never work well because of human greed/manipulation.
Jim B
 
from what i have seen in my area the crp program help start alot young guys and also kept other afloat plain simple. you say you lost 500 acres did so only cause you were not willing to pay going rental rate. that senereo has never changed. crp or not. crp in my area is not close to 200.00 acre . to rent farm ground you will pay over 200 to 350.00 has nothing to do with crp that i see, i used to farm 2000 plus ran cattle 400plus goats and sheep. went thru alot dollars but net profit on most years might as well worked flipping burgers. today rent all out, also alot in crp. since doing this make money every year , not just every 5 or so. run repair shop and retail business all of of farm shop. i can set my prices not what someelse does etc. i miss working with cattle ,still run some on grass areas. crp, waterway and filter strips is a good program.
 
Ronnie, I enjoyed meeting you Friday. This song was going thru my head before I read the post. Pretty sure it was about that same time frame.

Cafe on the Corner
Sawyer Brown

At the cafe down on the corner
With a lost look on his face
There ain't no fields to plow
No reason to now
He's just a little out of place

They say crime don't pay
But neither does farmin' these days
And the coffee is cold
And he's fifty years old
And he's gotta learn to live some other way

At the cafe down on the corner
With a lost look on his face
There ain't no fields to plow
He's busin' tables now
He's just a little out of place

And the meek shall inherit the earth
And the bank shall repossess it
This job don't pay half what it's worth
But it's a thankful man that gets it

At the cafe down on the corner
With a lost look on his face
There ain't no fields to plow
He's wishin' for one now
He's just a little out of place

All these soldiers without wars
And hometown boys without a home
Farmers without fields
Dealers without deals
And they sit here drinkin' coffee all alone

At the cafe down on the corner
 

Thank you for that outstanding post. It was cogent, succinct, and well-argued. My father, who is gone now, taught me the downsides of government meddling and unintended consequences 50 years ago when a similar program, called the "Soil Bank" back then, had much the same effects.
 
story is was a couple of guys got over a million dollars a year for a few years,
that made very hard to rent ground when they decided they wanted it,
 
Very well stated. If the US ends the CRP program it will result in the opportunity of a lifetime for younger US farmers. It will also put guys like me who farm mediocre land in Canada out of business very quickly. Just glad this country is too poor to start renting its own farm land. Wondering how long before President nnalert seriously reduces this program.
 
you are 100% right it is the only program that has 0 positive aspects -------I have offered many times to debate any pro crap progam lover and use only FACTS to kick his butt ----ZERO TAKERS---it only takes care of people who are rich or cant run a farm for profit
 
ztr mowers: You did not read my post very well. The time period I was talking about is WHEN the CRP program started, 1985 or 1986. They paid well above the cash rents of that time period.

Also I did not lose ground because I was unwilling to pay more. I was unwilling to lose money farming rented farm ground. I guess I should have rented all of it for what ever price it took and then used another Federal program, Chapter 12 farm bankruptcy, to keep all my stuff while sticking all my lenders and their "good" customers with MY bills.

When the CRP program came out the rental rates around here where usually $2 x the farm's CSR (Corn Suitability Rating) So a farm with a CSR of 80 would have rented for $160. Most of the CRP ground had CSRs in the 50-60s. So the average rent was $100-120 per acre. The minimum CRP contract in this county started out at $150.

Cash rents currently are running $300-550 per acre. CRP is at $230-250.
 
I have a good friend that has 100 acres of near swamp in the program. How could this be deemed highly erodible? I could get hay to mow on a reasonable percentage basis before, but now with so much land in CRP and the rest in grain, [ after the rise in grain prices a few years ago everyone plowed under pasture and hay land here ] there is no hay to cut and grain prices have settled back down. I am all for the really erodible land and stream side buffer programs, but this had come to be a program that has driven the price of land up for people who want to farm in favor of folks who often inherited or bought land with no desire to farm.
 
While I totally agree with everything you said, in our case my folks would have lost their place had the CRP not come into effect. Dad broke his back in 83, I tried running his place that year and the following. Between his medical expenses, my lack of understanding and unwillingness to "milk the government", and 21% interest, they were in BAD shape financially. All of a sudden the CRP came into effect. The folks put a 220 acre pivot (that should never have been taken out of grass) into that program. I think the first half they got signed up for $47/acre, and the second half at $53/acre. Mind you, I could have bought good grass for about $80/acre, so what they were getting from CRP (my taxes paid their CRP payment) in my mind kept them afloat. Dees that make it right, NO, but I am grateful that they didn't get sold out, and were able to make some rational decisions.
 
The CRP Program at one time had 30 million acres enrolled which converted cropland for 10 years to non cropland or grass. Now the Program is capped at 24 million acres so no more acres are going in. And apparently existing contracts are not being renewed. There were numerous gullies made into grass waterways that were placed into the program and paid for. If 1 ton of topsoil was saved per acre x 30 million cropland acres x 10 years then lots of soil was saved form going down the creek from erodible cropland that was seeded down to grass. There were benefits to folks other than farmers. CRP as a government conservation program was voluntary in that no one was forced to enroll any land into the Program. You had to go sign up for the program. The benefit from cropland removed from commodity production had to provide a minimal boost to corn prices which admittedly helped cash grain farmers, but not others who had to buy higher priced feed. Not saying government needs heavy involvement in farming but CRP had sizeable benefits and was not all a big negative.
 

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