can't prime 684 IH

[684 YYC]

I have a 684 that my dad passed onto to me. The tractor had issues when I received it, couldn't get fuel to flow despite a full tank. Pulled the lines, replaced the filters, got fuel flowing to the filter assembly but the air bleed on top didn't do what I'd expect in terms of bleeding fuel air then fuel when removed.

To do this I ended up rigging up a small 12V fuel pump and circulating the tank fuel through a filter to remove any sediment or whatever may have been limiting the flow out of the tank (pulled lines off bottom of tank and found that to be a restriction), did my best to stir up anything that was in the tank and get it cleaned up. We drained the fuel and replaced with fresh but fought getting things primed despite good flow out the bottom of the tank with the line removed. Eventually after enough cranking we managed to get things moving and the tractor has run well for five years. I did undo the fuel line into the rear injector to get it flowing.

This spring it started alarmingly well, literally second crank and she popped to life. But upon use, and a tank that was low but not empty...or so I believe on looking through the top the saddle style tank it stumbled a bit. Having fought the low fuel situation before I stopped on the first sign and put more fuel in. It grumbled a bit, but started the next morning. After burning about 10 gallons the pattern has repeated and I cannot get any fuel out the top of the fuel filter assembly's bleed screw.

I'm curious if I'm missing anything here before proceeding with the same process I did before that was more than a bit frustrating.

1. Is there any form of low pressure fuel pump anywhere? All I'm seeing is lines that gravity feed to the filters.
2. Am I correct in expecting a full tank to flow out the air bleed screw atop the filter assembly?
3. Could tight injectors be frustrating the high pressure pumps attempts to get fuel moving?
4. The line runs up from the fuel filter assembly and around the back of the engine under the dash and forward to the high pressure pump, it rises as it passes along that path...how the heck is the air supposed to purge? High pressure pump just pulls it through?

Any ideas are very welcome. Thanks.

 

[Highwayman]

The crossover line is probably plugged.
When you look in the fill port it appears to have fuel when in reality it’s empty on the other side you can’t see. Easiest solution is to just keep fuel in it.

 

[caterpillar guy]

Check the shutoff again and probably will need to remove the tank to get a good cleaning in it. Those tanks on those models were known for problems with rust as the sides next to the fenders rusted through from setting outside. The fenders are bolted right against the tanks so they hold the moisture between them and rust there. Also since you have cleaned the tank anything left that could soak loose will and settle at the bottom and as you know is over the flow valves to the filters. With a full tank it should bleed out fine. Our 574 is about the same set up and we bleed it with 5 gallon if we should run it out. Also as stated the cross over line is good for plugging with the same crude as the bottom of the tank does. If all that is clear then which filters do you have? Those cussed CAV junk with the glass bowels or the spin on. We have both on the 574 and 674 has the other cussed things. he oring in the wrong place will slow down or stop the flow of fuel though you said it was a good flow. Bleeders don't need to come out to bleed if you look you will see a slit in the side of the screws to let the air out so you don't drop and lose one just as it bleeds out clear. There should also be a bleed screw on the pump somewhere probably near the top of it. If not crack the line if you need to . First clean off the line at that connection so no dirt gets in.

 

[684 YYC]

Thanks, it is news that's there's a bleeder screw on the pump with makes an awful lot is sense. For the record I am getting flow out the bottom of the glass filter assembly, so perhaps things aren't too bad.

Part of my reservation of getting into this again was the experience of putting the glass bowls back on. They leave you feeling pretty stupid due to how impossible they are to get on right. Is there any downside to the spin-ons aside from loosing the drain screw?

Your comment on the balancing line clogging up is a good one, that may explain me thinking I shouldn't be out of fuel when the tractor had given a couple hesitations.

Is there some kind of retrofit priming pump similar to later tractors that can be fit? It may just mask problems in the tank/lines/filter but it sure would make recovering from low fuel easier.

 

[JimB2]

First thing I do when I suspect fuel flow issues on a 684 is with a clean bucket, remove the fuel line from the tank where it goes into the top of the filter assembly at right front of the tractor and let it drain into the clean bucket for at least 30 seconds and it should flow the full of the pipe. If it only flows a little, problem is back in the tank area, try loosening the filler cap on the tank to make sure the vent isn't clogged. As others have said junk in the tank, clogged cross over pipe. To prime the injection pump, If you have an air gun and a clean rag, you can apply some air pressure through the filler hole and you usually have to loosen 2 of the 4 injection line at the rear of the pump and then with STOP/START/RUN on START position crank the engine until fuel squirts out the loose lines, tighten lines and then try to start again. DO NOT CRANK ENGINE for long periods of time without letting starter cool down between cranking or you will damage starter.

 

[684 YYC]

First thing I do when I suspect fuel flow issues on a 684 is with a clean bucket, remove the fuel line from the tank where it goes into the top of the filter assembly at right front of the tractor and let it drain into the clean bucket for at least 30 seconds and it should flow the full of the pipe. If it only flows a little, problem is back in the tank area, try loosening the filler cap on the tank to make sure the vent isn't clogged. As others have said junk in the tank, clogged cross over pipe. To prime the injection pump, If you have an air gun and a clean rag, you can apply some air pressure through the filler hole and you usually have to loosen 2 of the 4 injection line at the rear of the pump and then with STOP/START/RUN on START position crank the engine until fuel squirts out the loose lines, tighten lines and then try to start again. DO NOT CRANK ENGINE for long periods of time without letting starter cool down between cranking or you will damage starter.

Thanks for this, my line atop the filter housing is seized and twists the fuel line when I tried to loosen it. That's why I ended up pulling the filters off last time.

I'm not getting fuel out of the bleeder screw when I open it, it doesn't make much sense. I am stricken with the tractor parked slightly uphill, but it just seems impossible that I can get fuel out of the bottom of the glass bowls and not the bleeder. Unless, of course, the filters are plugged....

I was climbing out of an area that I was pulling topsoil out of when things got fussy. Kicking sediment around in the fuel tank or pulling air probably started this...which points back to the tank.

 

[old]

I have a 684 that my dad passed onto to me. The tractor had issues when I received it, couldn't get fuel to flow despite a full tank. Pulled the lines, replaced the filters, got fuel flowing to the filter assembly but the air bleed on top didn't do what I'd expect in terms of bleeding fuel air then fuel when removed.

To do this I ended up rigging up a small 12V fuel pump and circulating the tank fuel through a filter to remove any sediment or whatever may have been limiting the flow out of the tank (pulled lines off bottom of tank and found that to be a restriction), did my best to stir up anything that was in the tank and get it cleaned up. We drained the fuel and replaced with fresh but fought getting things primed despite good flow out the bottom of the tank with the line removed. Eventually after enough cranking we managed to get things moving and the tractor has run well for five years. I did undo the fuel line into the rear injector to get it flowing.

This spring it started alarmingly well, literally second crank and she popped to life. But upon use, and a tank that was low but not empty...or so I believe on looking through the top the saddle style tank it stumbled a bit. Having fought the low fuel situation before I stopped on the first sign and put more fuel in. It grumbled a bit, but started the next morning. After burning about 10 gallons the pattern has repeated and I cannot get any fuel out the top of the fuel filter assembly's bleed screw.

I'm curious if I'm missing anything here before proceeding with the same process I did before that was more than a bit frustrating.

1. Is there any form of low pressure fuel pump anywhere? All I'm seeing is lines that gravity feed to the filters.
2. Am I correct in expecting a full tank to flow out the air bleed screw atop the filter assembly?
3. Could tight injectors be frustrating the high pressure pumps attempts to get fuel moving?
4. The line runs up from the fuel filter assembly and around the back of the engine under the dash and forward to the high pressure pump, it rises as it passes along that path...how the heck is the air supposed to purge? High pressure pump just pulls it through?

Any ideas are very welcome. Thanks.

Not long ago I had pretty much the same problem on my IH584. I had to drain the fuel tank and pull each outlet off and clean/blow every thing out and once I did that and fill the tank back up all was just fine. The main outlet going to the line that goes to the filters was so clogged up it looked like a rust plug in it

 

[684 YYC]

Any ideas on moving to the spin on filters? I have a bucket so accessing the glass filter assembly is virtually impossible, needs to be done laying on your back looking up at fuel dripping on your face reaching for things you cannot reach. BUT, the other problem is that my line into the filter housing assembly is seized to the fitting and cannot be removed without destroying the line in.

I guess I just go spin-on and pull the filters every time I need to establish that I have flow to that point.

 

[old]

Any ideas on moving to the spin on filters? I have a bucket so accessing the glass filter assembly is virtually impossible, needs to be done laying on your back looking up at fuel dripping on your face reaching for things you cannot reach. BUT, the other problem is that my line into the filter housing assembly is seized to the fitting and cannot be removed without destroying the line in.

I guess I just go spin-on and pull the filters every time I need to establish that I have flow to that point.

My IH584 also has a loader so every thing I did was a twist to get in and out plus I have a disk on the 3 point so it was tight getting to all the outlet fitting at the bottom of the tank plus you need to blow out the lines

 

[684 YYC]

Looking for fuel filters before I get into this, is modification/replacement of the filter housing necessary to go to spin on style filters? Anybody have a P/N handy?

Is this a direct fit? https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Farmall-684_Fuel-Filter-Spin-On_3132428R2.html

 

[old]

Looking for fuel filters before I get into this, is modification/replacement of the filter housing necessary to go to spin on style filters? Anybody have a P/N handy?

Is this a direct fit? https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Farmall-684_Fuel-Filter-Spin-On_3132428R2.html

I have the filter numbers for my IH584 but not sure they would be the same
Wix33373
Wix33472

 

[684 YYC]

I have the filter numbers for my IH584 but not sure they would be the same
Wix33373
Wix33472

Do you have the Bosch fuel system?

 

[old]

Do you have the Bosch fuel system?

Not sure what fuel system is has

 

[JimB2]

Thanks for this, my line atop the filter housing is seized and twists the fuel line when I tried to loosen it. That's why I ended up pulling the filters off last time.

I'm not getting fuel out of the bleeder screw when I open it, it doesn't make much sense. I am stricken with the tractor parked slightly uphill, but it just seems impossible that I can get fuel out of the bottom of the glass bowls and not the bleeder. Unless, of course, the filters are plugged....

I was climbing out of an area that I was pulling topsoil out of when things got fussy. Kicking sediment around in the fuel tank or pulling air probably started this...which points back to the tank.

I feel your pain, one time several years ago I was chopping corn with my brother's 684, corn harvester plus almost full wagon going up a steep hill and it stopped, no portable air tank, had to put a length of hose on the line on top of the filter and blow back into the tank.

 

[684 YYC]

Well, it's not very often I'm happy about dealing with a fuel issue on this tractor but I am. After a lot of thoughts about our relationship and the future I went out with all my tools ready to deal with whatever was necessary.

I even had my transfer pump fuel filtering system ready to go. See attached pic.

First plan of attack was to open the vent screw in the filter housing and hit it with some compressed air. I gave it a little puff with 5 psi as the air compressor built pressure and walked around to loosen the fuel cap. I was surprised that it was on vacuum, probably just the fuel shrinkage as it cooled, but it did make me wonder whether that was not exactly helping get things primed.

Walked around to the filter housing and it was happily trumpeting fuel.

Apparently the blockage was minor and pushed out by the limited pressure and/or the cap is a little tight to vent. Either way I worked my way around bleeding and got it fired up. Tomorrow a little pre-emptive churning and filtering of the sediment in hopes that I don't have to think about this for as many as five more years.

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I must have a strong starter...I will be kinder in the future. Feeling a little sheepish about not popping the cap earlier...

 

[JimB2]

IIRC, The vent line is off the filler neck and runs down between the fuel tank and the fender, not the ideal location for a vent line, maybe a bug crawled up inside it and plugged it.

 

[old]

Well, it's not very often I'm happy about dealing with a fuel issue on this tractor but I am. After a lot of thoughts about our relationship and the future I went out with all my tools ready to deal with whatever was necessary.

I even had my transfer pump fuel filtering system ready to go. See attached pic.

First plan of attack was to open the vent screw in the filter housing and hit it with some compressed air. I gave it a little puff with 5 psi as the air compressor built pressure and walked around to loosen the fuel cap. I was surprised that it was on vacuum, probably just the fuel shrinkage as it cooled, but it did make me wonder whether that was not exactly helping get things primed.

Walked around to the filter housing and it was happily trumpeting fuel.

Apparently the blockage was minor and pushed out by the limited pressure and/or the cap is a little tight to vent. Either way I worked my way around bleeding and got it fired up. Tomorrow a little pre-emptive churning and filtering of the sediment in hopes that I don't have to think about this for as many as five more years.

Thanks for all the helpful comments. I must have a strong starter...I will be kinder in the future. Feeling a little sheepish about not popping the cap earlier...

I agree with the other guy good chance the vent is clogged up and if it is a vacuum will build up in the tank again and cause you the same issue

 

[caterpillar guy]

The spin on filters use a different filter base or at least on the 574/674 they do . Have to change the base and according to one person some of the lines to. When I looked into it for our 674 It looked like if you changed the base it would be ready for the spin on filters. As for the tank venting it would just change it to a cap like the rest use and the vent then would be through the cap and be fine without the tank vent you see at the top inside of the filler neck. It is also just as cheap to run on the top half as the bottom half and no walking to the house for fuel either. I try to keep filled up since there is less space for condensation in the tank that way.