Case 188D

[Travis.ward]

I purchased a 1968 Case 580 CK with 188D that had an overheat situation 20 yrs ago.

I took the head off and sent it out for inspection and installed new valves and seats. I installed the head on the engine. I did install a new head gasket. I torque the head down to 90 foot pounds installed the exhaust manifold intake manifold and rock her arms. Put the engine on top dead center and adjusted the valves.
I proceeded to start the engine and the engine ran extremely well and had good oil pressure. Because I had no water in the engine I shut it off after one or two minutes of running.
I then installed the water pump the radiator & fan. I then filled up the radiator with coolant and when I got about halfway full, there was dribbles of water coming out the new water pump out of the weep hole. When the radiator got full. I then tried to start the engine, and the engine was Hydro locked. I am at a complete loss as to why the engine is Hydro locked. Pull the head off.Faughn. I noticed two things that I did wrong.
The manual says to install a zinc plated bolt in the cavity behind the water pump that bolts into the head, which I did not have. The Manual also states the head gasket with a quarter inch hole needs to be at the rear of the engine and not at the front of the engine that all lines with the quarter inch hole, that’s probably a water jacket port. Would there be any other reason anybody can think of of how I got so much water in the engine that quickly?

 

[jon f mn]

Check your sleeves, running even a short time without any water is dangerous

 

[used red MN]

The Manual also states the head gasket with a quarter inch hole needs to be at the rear of the engine and not at the front of the engine that all lines with the quarter inch hole, that’s probably a water jacket port.

What cylinder(s) had coolant in them when you pulled the head? When you look at this 1/4” hole does it correspond with a hole that has coolant in it? Are you mentioning the hole because you think it is related to the coolant getting in your cylinder(s)? I don’t think you can do much harm running that tractor without a load a couple of minutes. But I do think you need to check for sleeve cavitation, which is a molecular process that eats holes through the sleeve wall. Close your radiator and block drains and fill the engine with coolant as close to the top of the cylinder block as you can get it. Run two pistons down to the bottom of their bore and let it set overnight to see if coolant leaks into one of the cylinders. Then turn the other two down and check those two after it sets all day unless it is immediately obvious where the leak is.

 

[Travis.ward]

I appreciate your help.
One other thing I realized when I bought the head gasket kit, the gasket doesn’t have firings built into it. I also didn’t install fire rings as the Manuel states so I continue to figure out that I screwed each and everything up.

 

[DanielW]

The early 188's had head gaskets that you bought separate fire rings for. This was because (someone will correct me if I remember this wrong) of two reasons: i) The sleeve protrusion wasn't always perfectly consistent from the factory, so there were different fire ring thicknesses available depending on the sleeve protrusion for factory assembly. ii) The early 188's had a narrower sleeve flange that didn't provide enough bearing surface, so the block surface the flange sat on would get compressed over time, and at some point thicker fire rings could/needed-to-be be installed to compensate.

You absolutely need fire rings in some capacity - either the gasket with integral rings (more common) or the gasket without fire rings and separate fire rings (a little harder to come by). I haven't checked lately, but as of four years ago none of the parts books for any tractors/hoes on the CNH parts book website didn't show both options - only the later. But if you found the parts book strictly for the 188D power unit (was a little harder to find if I remember right), it did show both options.

4 years ago I picked up a 630 with a 188D that the PO had done an in-frame rebuild of (including valve job and injection pump rebuild). They had exactly the same symptoms as you: Got it back together, started up and water was pouring into the block. He assumed a cracked block and sold it for me for scrap price. I was intending to just use it as a parts unit for the injection pump and tires. But I pulled the pan off and looked in, and the water seemed to be coming from around the pistons - not between the sleeves and block. So I thought I'd pull the head off for giggles and see what was up. I thought possibly a cracked head. But head looked good, and the machine shop he had taken the head to for the valve job and pressure testing was one I use and know to be top-notch, so I would have been a little surprised if the head was cracked. The head looked good, but I saw it had the narrower sleeve flanges. Didn't want to spend too much time on it, but I noticed he had the later (more commonly available) gasket with the integral fire rings in it. For giggles, I put in the one of the older style of gaskets without fire rings and a bought set of the thickest fire rings Case had for the 188. Not really 'proper' work/diagnosis/measuring on my part, but I didn't have much skin in it.

Four years later, that 630 still runs like a top and gets a heck of a lot of use in haying season. Hasn't leaked a drop of coolant into the crankcase since I did that work. I'll freely admit this was more good luck than good management on my part.

That's my story. Because yours is a '68 I'm almost sure it should have taken the later style gasket with integral fire rings. But I don't know my Cases well enough to know what years/models got which versions of the 188.

Either way, you need fire rings in there. Was the manual you followed perhaps form an earlier version that would have had the separate gasket/rings? I personally don't think you would have done any harm by running a couple minutes without coolant. My opinion: I'd pull the head off and put one of the gaskets with integral fire-rings in. Check your sleeve protrusion while you're at it and let us know what you find.

 

[Travis.ward]

The early 188's had head gaskets that you bought separate fire rings for. This was because (someone will correct me if I remember this wrong) of two reasons: i) The sleeve protrusion wasn't always perfectly consistent from the factory, so there were different fire ring thicknesses available depending on the sleeve protrusion for factory assembly. ii) The early 188's had a narrower sleeve flange that didn't provide enough bearing surface, so the block surface the flange sat on would get compressed over time, and at some point thicker fire rings could/needed-to-be be installed to compensate.

You absolutely need fire rings in some capacity - either the gasket with integral rings (more common) or the gasket without fire rings and separate fire rings (a little harder to come by). I haven't checked lately, but as of four years ago none of the parts books for any tractors/hoes on the CNH parts book website showed both options. But if you found the parts book strictly for the 188D power unit (was a little harder to find if I remember right), it did show both options.

4 years ago I picked up a 630 with a 188D that the PO had done an in-frame rebuild of (including valve job and injection pump rebuild). They had exactly the same symptoms as you: Got it back together, started up and water was pouring into the block. He assumed a cracked block and sold it for me for scrap price. I was intending to just use it as a parts unit for the injection pump and tires. But I pulled the pan off and looked in, and the water seemed to be coming from around the pistons - not between the sleeves and block. So I thought I'd pull the head off for giggles and see what was up. I thought possibly a cracked head. But head looked good, and the machine shop he had taken the head to for the valve job and pressure testing was one I use and know to be top-notch, so I would have been a little surprised if the head was cracked. The head looked good, but I saw it had the narrower sleeve flanges. Didn't want to spend too much time on it, but I noticed he had the later (more commonly available) gasket with the integral fire rings in it. For giggles, I put in the one of the older style of gaskets without fire rings and a bought set of the thickest fire rings Case had for the 188. Not really 'proper' work/diagnosis/measuring on my part, but I didn't have much skin in it.

Four years later, that 630 still runs like a top and gets a heck of a lot of use in haying season. Hasn't leaked a drop of coolant into the crankcase since I did that work. I'll freely admit this was more good luck than good management on my part.

That's my story. Because yours is a '68 I'm almost sure it should have taken the later style gasket with integral fire rings. But I don't know my Cases well enough to know what years/models got which versions of the 188.

Either way, you need fire rings in there. Was the manual you followed perhaps form an earlier version that would have had the separate gasket/rings? I personally don't think you would have done any harm by running a couple minutes without coolant. My open opinion: I'd pull the head off and put one of the gaskets with integral fire-rings in. Check your sleeve protrusion while you're at it and let us know what you find.

I appreciate your knowledge and life experience in this matter. Thank you.

 

[Travis.ward]

The Parts Manual I am using is Case G971 and the service manual is is Case 9-69650 580 CK 188 Dynaclonic Diesel with 880 pages.
I seem to believe I have the most accurrate manuals.

Ill need to measure the Sleeve protrusion and determine if I need the .070 or .075 fire rings.

 

[used red MN]

The Parts Manual I am using is Case G971 and the service manual is is Case 9-69650 580 CK 188 Dynaclonic Diesel with 880 pages.
I seem to believe I have the most accurrate manuals.

I’ll need to measure the Sleeve protrusion and determine if I need the .070 or .075 fire rings.

Just FYI, YT member John Saeli is well known in J.I. Case circles as being the go to guy for hard to come by Case parts.
Saeli Equpiment
Edit: Adding… Travis, welcome to YT!

 

[Travis.ward]

Just FYI, YT member John Saeli is well known in J.I. Case circles as being the go to guy for hard to come by Case parts.
Saeli Equpiment
Edit: Adding… Travis, welcome to YT!

Do you have contact information for John Saeli?

 

[Tgrasher]

Rebuilt the gas version of the 188 in the tractor avatar to the left with John's coaching. It's always the fastest tractor in the parade. Saeli 315-585-9826

 

[used red MN]

Do you have contact information for John Saeli?

Oops, that “Saeli Equipment” was supposed to be a link. Saeli Equipment YT disallow their link. I see tg picked it up.
Edit: Apparently YT puts the kabosh on their link. A web search of same would have worked.