Case 211B Engine Noise

[DB1991]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to get another set of eyes looking at this issue I have been having with my tractor.

There is a noise coming from the engine that seems to go with every cylinder's power stroke. It is enough that you feel it in your foot while sitting in the drivers seat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbtwVBh9INk&feature=youtu.be

It might not show up the best on video, but trust me, there is something definitely wrong.

I pulled the plugs and took a look in the cylinders with a borescope and saw nothing wrong in any cylinder. No scoring on the cylinder walls, no debris on top of the pistons.

I pulled the valve cover off and re-lashed all the valves at TDC. We noticed that not all the rocker arms are contacting the top of the valve stem perfectly in the center. Not really too positive on how that would play in to this problem, but thought it could be worth mentioning.

I put soap and water along the top of the exhaust manifold thinking maybe it was some combustion noise escaping, but there weren't any leaks.

I did an oil change to 10W-30, still has the noise. I even put some Lucas oil in it. I will note that the oil that came out was very "liquid". It didn't seem very thick at all.

Our current working theory is that too much fuel in the oil (so not enough oil pressure/lubrication) could've caused the rearmost main bearing to partially spin. The noise is coming from the rear of the engine, so it is our current best guess.

Has someone else has experienced this problem, or has something else they would suggest I check before tearing into it too far.

 

[tomturkey]

I'm not familiar with the 211B, but maybe take the pan off and have a look see. gobble

 

[tomturkey]

I'm not familiar with the 211B, but maybe take the pan off and have a look see. Does not sound like giving it a couple of aspirin and a week of rest is going to fix it. lol gobble

 

[L.Fure]

The isn't rocker arm noise I hear in the video. How is the oil pressure? A drop in oil pressure plus the noise would point to a loose bearing. But it doesn't sound like a main bearing, more like a rod bearing to me. Did you use a section of garden hose, or similar, as a stethoscope to pinpoint the sound?

 

[DB1991]

Unfortunately there isn't an oil pressure gauge on this tractor, so I am kind of flying blind in that regard.

I used a large breaker bar as a stethoscope. I wasn't able to pinpoint the exact spot of the sound, but it is in the rear of the engine for sure.

I tried to pull the pan off last night. I got all the bolts off and the pan loose, but it looks like there is a suspension piece that has to come off the tractor before dropping the pan, and I wasn't prepared for that.

I will upload a picture of what I mean a little later.

 

[L.Fure]

(quoted from post at 13:40:40 05/13/18)
Unfortunately there isn't an oil pressure gauge on this tractor, so I am kind of flying blind in that regard.

I used a large breaker bar as a stethoscope. I wasn't able to pinpoint the exact spot of the sound, but it is in the rear of the engine for sure.

I tried to pull the pan off last night. I got all the bolts off and the pan loose, but it looks like there is a suspension piece that has to come off the tractor before dropping the pan, and I wasn't prepared for that.

I will upload a picture of what I mean a little later.

Using something to listen to the workings of an engine should be more sensitive than a breaker bar. You need to determine if the noise is front or back, or top or bottom of the engine, so you know where to look when you open up the engine.

 

[Stephen Newell]

Trying to pinpoint a engine noise can be very frustrating. You might get yourself a mechanic's stethoscope.

 

[kevinthefixer]

First thing I'd do is get a small magnet on a stick (they sell them on old telescoping radio antennas) and wiggle it around in the bottom of the pan. If you find steel particles down there, you might as well start removing the engine. If you've already removed the pan it makes that part easier.

 

[C.Amick]

Check to see that the vertical stem that slides into the oil filter is there. Sometimes they get thrown away with the filter. Won't have adequate oil pressure without it.

 

[DB1991]

So, I think I have figured out what I want to do.

I want to pull the pan out and inspect the rod and main bearings. If I find something "easy", I can replace it myself. If it is anything more complicated than that (scored crankshaft journal, etc), I have a friend with an engine shop that should be able to help me out. I didn't really want to fix too many things at once, since it always seems that as soon as you fix something it creates a problem somewhere else.

With that being said, is it possible to pull the pan without removing the front of the tractor? Like I mentioned earlier, I took the bolts out and tried to get the pan to drop last night, but there was a part in the way. Do I need to remove the front of the tractor to drop the oil pan, or is there something I am not seeing?

 

[DB1991]

The vertical stem is there and intact. I have been looking to buy a new filter, but am having a hard time finding a place to actually buy it. I currently have a "Carquest 84011" on it.

 

[kevinthefixer]

(quoted from post at 18:19:36 05/13/18)
The vertical stem is there and intact. I have been looking to buy a new filter, but am having a hard time finding a place to actually buy it. I currently have a "Carquest 84011" on it.

hat part is easy. I'm sure YT has it, or external link Parts. Maybe there's a Tractor Supply near you? My best part supplier is John Saeli. Chances are you'll need something only he can get soon.

 

[kevinthefixer]

(quoted from post at 18:19:36 05/13/18)
The vertical stem is there and intact. I have been looking to buy a new filter, but am having a hard time finding a place to actually buy it. I currently have a "Carquest 84011" on it.

hat part is easy. I'm sure YT has it, or external link Parts. Maybe there's a Tractor Supply near you? My best part supplier is John Saeli. Chances are you'll need something only he can get soon.

 

[DB1991]

I found it in the service manual that the front axle and wheels to get to the oil pan... maybe in a couple weeks I will be able to get to it and update

 

[DB1991]

I found it in the service manual that the front axle and wheels need to be removed to get to the oil pan... maybe in a couple weeks I will be able to get to it and update

 

[L.Fure]

(quoted from post at 20:13:00 05/14/18) I found it in the service manual that the front axle and wheels to get to the oil pan... maybe in a couple weeks I will be able to get to it and update

I think you should do a little more diagnosing before you start taking things apart. Like pin pointing where the noise is coming from. It could be something other than main and rod bearings. Did you look at the water pump. There are times where they can make a bunch of racket and not leak. Or maybe a cam follower his hanging up. Do all the rocker arms move the same? Put a oil pressure gauge on the engine to see what the oil pressure is for sure.

 

[Joe (Wa)]

(quoted from post at 02:19:36 05/14/18)
The vertical stem is there and intact. I have been looking to buy a new filter, but am having a hard time finding a place to actually buy it. I currently have a "Carquest 84011" on it.

If still factory oil filter base plenty of choices:

Baldwin T300-M
Fram C-159
Wix 57011
Napa 7011 (wix)

Joe

 

[Joe (Wa)]

I can't remember where the oil gauge pickup is on your 126 cid engine but it is the same basic block as the VA 124 cid and the 300/300B 148 cid engines. Oil gauge pickup on the those blocks is on the oil galley left side of the block below the carb. Plugs are either 1/8" or 1/4" npt, rig up a 0=-30 psi gauge there. Good oil pressure full rpm/load is 12 - 20 psi. Pic is a 300.

A basic check is pull the valve cover, you should have enough oil flow to run off the top deck down the push rod holes, that is the end point of the oil circuit. The cam center and aft bearings are lubed by this run off. The cam front bearing is lubed by a separate pressure branch circuit.

Another less accurate check is screw a standard mason jar on in place of your oil filter, get an idea from the visible oil spray from the holes at the top of the stem tube. Have to be quick, glass clouds up if oil has a lot of carbon.

Joe

 

[Jeffs211b]

Did you ever find out what was causing this