case 350 crawler shuttle issues

[inspector75]

I just bought my first dozer. its a case 350 crawler loader or atleast i think it is sn3033106 which one website told me was for a 310. Anyway my issue is that when got it it ran pretty good and after about an hour it started to loose power from the tranny like you would put it in gear at full throttle on a push and it wouldn"t spin the tracks. Added fluid (way overfilled it) because it smelled kinda hot. Next day it was healed. A few days later ran it for about an hour or so grading road and it never lost power but was pushing the extra fluid out the fill tube. Next day ran it for about an hour and it was a the same store as the beginning. Checked fluid still good. Let it sit. Day later full power has not returned. This model has the shuttle without the removable pan. Just checked the little strainer that goes into the RH side of the case no debris. Any other suggestions? Is there still a filter like the models with the separate pan somewhere?
thanks

 

[AJ.]

There is a filter on the lines going to the cooler,its located under the floor right back of the shuttle,it is important that the shuttle is not overfilled,you check the level with the engine on low idle the gearbox in fourth gear and the shuttle in neutral,with the oil level right work it and see how it goes,if it is still throwing out the oil look at the breather to see its not choked,its on the left back on top of the shuttle.
AJ

 

[inspector75]

The guy i bought it from just changed the trans cartridge filter supposidly before i got it. what should the tranny pressure gauge in the dash read in different situations? Thanks

 

[Jiles]

I agree with AJ.
Also, I personally don't put much confidence in what a seller tells me, especially if I don't know them well.
More times then I care to think about--I have had to do a repair or service that had just been done. :!:

 

[AJ.]

I forget what type of gauge was used,I think it had a green area for normal pressure and red for low but I"m not sure,someone that has one will tell you.
AJ

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

here is the specs from the Case servise manual can scan more if you need cnt

 

[inspector75]

thanks i'll check the pressure later the factory psi gauge doesn't do anything. Do the models without the removable oil pan on the shuttle have a filter on the inlet of the pump, or is the little cylindrical one when you take the line and fitting out on the R/H it?

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

according to my book s/n 3050472 has a deep sump pan with a oil screen, yours if it does not have the removable pan my have been switched out for a older unit and from what I am seeing the older style only has the external filter am attaching a pic to show oil flow let me know if you would like more out of the SM cnt

 

[inspector75]

my brother just tested the pressure by slaving in an 80 psi oil pressure gauge in place of the factory gauge. his results are as follows. He put the final in neutral. Shuttle in gear and ran the engine at rated speed for a while. after the tranny temp was up almost touching the red on the gauge idle 20 psi. rated speed 85-90 psi but its hard to know if thats right since it is beyond the range of the gauge and it was just a cheap Harbor Freight oil gauge. Does this help to diognose it to a pump? or is that good enough that you wouldnt notice with light use? he said that the other day it wouldnt steer in 3rd because you pull the steer brake and it didn't have enough to keep moving.

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

right now I would not run it any more until you find the problem, I should have time tomorow to scan you the steps to find your hangup the Case SM is pretty through on this hope this will be soon enough as I am in the middle of haying but will scan things as I have time cnt

 

[inspector75]

that would be great. thanks alot

 

[inspector75]

not sure if Nutty forgot about me or not but do those numbers sound correct for the pressures in normal operating condition. We rechecked the numbers with a 200PSI gauge and they were still the same. I remember reading somewhere about you are suppse to unhook some valve and possibly use a different port for the real pressure check. Could anyone fill me in on exactly what the proceedures are. OR an upload of the shuttle shift section of the case manual would be great.Thanks.

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

sorry I put it on another post for you under Inspector 75 its on the first page, i can scan & post the section for the three speed unit also if you like cnt

 

[inspector75]

As kind of an update. i drained the fluid from the shuttle and refilled with the correct stuff + ~ 1 quart of the mineral 90 for the final. The results (in my brothers words) it has more power now but no more pressure. Would anyone else say probably a tq converter is needed?

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

did you find the test sheets I posted for you and what are the readings the torque converter does not make pressure for the clutch pack I guess I need mor info from you to help with diagnossing the problem, I have only seen two actually be bad( not saying yours is good)and both of these would put aluimamin shaving into the system it sounds like you have a check or relife or maybe a blown piston seal does it have more pressure in reverse than in forward I just need more to go on cnt my e-mail is open if you like

 

[inspector75]

nutty thanks for the upload. The pressure values are the same in fwd neutral and reverse. Pressures are within spec like 110 psi before you get it hot. Then when its hot it maxes like 90 or so.. i dont see a 20 psi difference causing it to be as weak as it was. Checked out the converter check valve like the troubleshooting suggested as a final option. It was all clean and in good working order. I was thinking it could be a lack of fluid getting to the converter. My brother has been bringing the trans up to temp by putting the final in N and the shuttle in Fwd and let it run a 2000 for a few minutes.. should this really bring it up to temp. I was thinking maybe converter cavitation from a lack on oil getting to it and making it hot. Any ideas on this.

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

I don't remember if you said how hot but the oil would get as warm aproxamently as the water temp by the way does the engine temp get hot also wonder if you have a cooler flow problem or a plugged/ collaspted hose but no just by running the shuttle with the trans in "N" it should not exceed engine water temp one more question does it have push power when cold and them lose when hot?? and is the oil after running foamy this could indicate a suction problem cnt

 

[inspector75]

Oil doesn't seem foamy to me. No collapsed cooler hosees. Blew out with shop air. Engine temp settles around 180 and tranny will climb to top of green band. Seemed to push decent cold and get worse warm.

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

this one is really making me think as it has been since 76 when we sold out when I last had got to work on one and my cousin has one doing the same thing but haven't had time to check it, I believe you said you changed the filter is it a Case filter or a will fit maybe if it is it is to restrictive and it ie really confusing me as to why itgets "hot" just running in "N" with fwd/rev in gear do you have a flow meter you could borrow to see how much flow you have to the cooler and if it like mine it has a guage to tell how much backpressure am just going thru what I can think of hope I am not repeating what you have alraeady thought of also do you have a temp gun you could shoot the lazer on to the various parts to see where you hot spots are cnt

 

[inspector75]

not nessicarily HOT but up within 1/8 of the red like the test proceedure says in 5 min or less.

 

[inspector75]

My dad was running it today and he said he could hear what sounded like the torque convert noise. after about an hour or so it get hot enough the that torque started leaking oil around the input seal and smoking, but the gauge was still well within the green. I'm going to put a new gauge on it tommorw and see if the gauge may be giving random outputs. Probably going to be putting a torque in it. I was wondering what the difference is between the "dozer/draw bar" torque and the " crawler loader" torque. I'm going to be working it more like a dozer than a loader and wondered if that may be a better choice for my application since they are the same price. Probably going to put a pump in it while im at it. Is this doable in the machine by removing the drive shaft and sliding the shuttle back a foot or so or is it best to just do it out on the bench?
Thanks

 

[inspector75]

the oil was being very hot. At the point when it stoped pushing good i probed the shuttle and it pegged 280 F gauge. Decided to change the converter. Spent 2 days trying to get the shuttle out and now i'm stuck. The shuttle wont come back because it hits the pipe that is part of the undercarage. It wont lift strait up even though i took all the flex plate bolts out. Thought about unhooking rear motor mount and jacking both parts to get it to clear but the bolts are covered by the loader frame and it doesn't have access holes for those bolts. All i can do at this point it rock it back and forth up and down put a bar in a get up to an inch of gap on one side at a time or about 1/4 all the way round. ANY help woudl be appreciated.. BTW driveshaft and lines are removed so its not something like that. THANK