Case 511B electrical

Jefd

Member
Hi all!
I have a Case 511B that seems to not charge the battery. I’m not a huge electrical guy, so any help is appreciated. The tractor’s ammeter does not show a + charge. It used to show + on the gauge ‘til the battery was charged then the cutout would read closer to zero. I’m getting a reading off the gen. around 20 volts, and am reading 12.1 volts at the battery. Is the voltage regulator bad?HELP!!!
Jeff
 
You are welcome here at the YT forums and ASAP parts. If the year includes a generator and not a later alternator,(aluminum looking thing is alternator) this will help. It is from John T a retired electrical engineer!!
TROUBLESHOOTING CHARGING SYSTEMS

ARE YOU SURE THE AMMETER IS WIRED CORRECT AND WORKS????? If you turn the lights or ignition on (if coil ignition not a mag) when she?s not running, the ammeter should swing over to the - discharge direction, does yours??? Are BOTH the ammeter terminals reading hot battery voltage?? They MUST !!!!!!! There?s but one wire on the ammeters Supply (from battery/starter) terminal while its other Load terminal wires to the BAT terminal on a Cutout relay or VR PLUS wires to feed loads like lights or ignition, UNLESS where a 4 terminal VR is used, and if so lights n ignition are fed from the LOAD terminal on the VR.

To Polarize the Generator, first temporarily dead ground the Gens Field post to case/frame, then momentarily flash jump a wire from the Cutout Relay or VR's "BAT" terminal over to its GEN/ ARM) terminal and you ought to get a small spark. Same things accomplished by momentarily flash jumping a hot wire (BAT terminal on Cutout Relay or VR or starter post etc) direct to the Gens ARM post to get the spark.

TROUBLESHOOTING A CHARGING PROBLEM IN CLASS A DELCO TYPE SYSTEMS

1) For a good working Gen to get to and charge the battery, it has to have a path usually from the Gens ARM post,,,,,,,,,,To and through the Cutout Relay (between its GEN and BAT terminals, regardless if on a VR or Relay),,,,,,,,,Up to the Load (NOT to battery) side of the Ammeter,,,,,,,,,To and through the Ammeter,,,,,,,,,,From BAT side of Ammeter to ungrounded battery terminal, often via the starter lug post. Is yours wired that way or equivalent ??? The ammeter should read hot battery voltage on BOTH terminals, does yours??? Even if an ammeter were stuck (but still continuous) as RPM increases the battery voltage should rise from 12.6 to near 14 volts and/or the lights glow brighter (half that on 6 volt systems). Have you tried that in case the ammeter isn?t working right?????

2) If the above is so, the BAT terminal on the VR or Cutout Relay MUST ALWAYS READ HOT BATTERY VOLTAGE. Does yours??? If not, the Gen cant get to and charge the battery.

3) The Gen to VR (if it has one) wiring is as follows:

BAT on VR to ammeters load (NOT battery) side

ARM (or GEN) on VR to Gens Armature post.

FLD on VR to Gens Field post.

(L) Load (if you have a 4 wire VR) up to BAT supply input terminal on switch to feed loads like lights and ignition.

WIRING ON CUTOUT RELAYS: They wire BAT side to ammeters Load terminal,,,,,,GEN side to gens Armature post. On cutout relay systems, the Gens Field post is wired to the light switch where it gets a dead ground for high charge or a resistive ground for low charge. Therefore, there must be a good connection from the Gens Field post up to the switch PLUS the switch is good and it?s well grounded !!!!!!!!

4. THE GEN AND VR OR CUTOUT RELAY MUST BE WELL GROUNDED AND THE BELT GOOD N TIGHT. If any doubt, run a ground wire from the grounded battery post or clean solid frame member direct to the Gen and see what happens????????????????????????????

NOW, if the Gen and VR are grounded,,,,,all is wired correct,,,,,,,,BAT terminal on VR or Cutout Relay is HOT,,,,,,,,Belt is tight,,,,,,,,,Ammeter is good n continuous n works but she wont charge, have you had the batteries tested lately????? Is there electrolyte above all the plates and no cells have a gray or milky appearance?????? A bad battery may not accept a charge you know!!!!!!!! If the battery checks okay, proceed below to see if its a Gen or VR problem (AFTER you have insured the wiring per the above)

TO DETERMINE IF ITS A GEN OR VR OR CUTOUT RELAY PROBLEM

5. a) VOLTAGE REGULATOR SYSTEM: With the tractor running, temporarily ground the Gens Field post to case. If she charges then but NOT otherwise, the VR may be bad, or a wires missing from VR's Field post to the Field terminal on the VR, or the VR isn?t well grounded.

b) IF IT?S A CUTOUT RELAY SYSTEM and she charges only if you dead ground the Field but NOT otherwise, its either a bad switch or the switch isn?t well grounded or else the wires bad or open from the Gens Field post up to the switch. INSURE THAT GOOD SWITCH GROUND AND WIRING

6. If she still don?t charge, leave the Field grounded and jump a wire across from the VR or Cutout Relays BAT terminal over to its GEN terminal (jump by passes the cutout relay) and see if she charges. If then but not otherwise, a VR's cutout relay isn?t working correct (maybe points burned/carboned) or a Cutout Relays NOT working or not wired correct.

7. With the 2 steps above, you have basically by passed the VR or Cutout relays functions, so if she still don?t charge, you're left with a bad battery or wiring or the Gen itself.

8. MOTOR TEST. You can Motor test the Gen. If its grounded and you remove the belt and apply hot battery voltage direct to its ARM Post and have the Field Post dead grounded to frame, it should motor n run well (Armature n Brushes and Commutator likely okay). Then, if you next remove the Fields ground and it speeds up some, the Fields probably good. If it passes both those tests, it should charge, and if not, it may be a wiring or battery or grounding problem. The hot battery voltage may be taken off the VR's BAT terminal or the starter post or the battery itself for this test.

9. Typical Gen problems may be the brushes are worn down or the hold down spring assemblies are stuck/corroded/dirty and arent pushing the brushes tight down against the commutator. Check those things out. Worse may be bad fields or armature etc. Air and WD 40 etc can clean and free them, the hold downs must be free n snap and hold the brushes DOWN TIGHT and they cant be worn down too low.

SUMMARY: Check the wiring,,,,,the grounds,,,,,,insure BAT on VR or Relay is hot,,,,,,,check battery (maybe load tested and Specific Gravity checked),,,,,,,,,good tight belt,,,,,,,insure ammeter is continuous (BOTH sides HOT),,,,,,see if battery voltage rises above 12.6 (half that for 6 volt system) and/or light glow brighter,,,,,,,,,do the Field and cutout relay VR by pass checks,,,,,,,,insure the Gens brushes arent worn down and the hold down springs are free n clean and push the brushes down tight,,,,,,,,,,,check the connections,,,,,,,,,try the Gen Motor Test to see if its good.

You may just have a bad battery or bad ground or connection if the Gen and VR or relay are okay

John T
 
Ok, so I’m reading 33-34 volts dc with tractor running at high idle. Is there a resistor somewhere in the A wire, or somewhere between the A wire and regulator? I don’t want to put in a new VR and fry it!!! I have continuity from the A wire at the gen. to the wire at the VR, and get 11.89 volts from both A and F wires, but nothing at the B wire.
 
Oops! I’ve got 11.89 also at the batt. when connecting to the non grounded terminal. Also same #’s on both sides of ammeter.
 
Oops! I’ve got 11.89 also at the batt. when connecting to the non grounded terminal. Also same #’s on both sides of ammeter.
If you are using a digital readout volt meter, you may be getting false readings. Expensive meters can work, but if the numbers jump around, that may be the issue on those high readings. Analog (needle) type meters work well and are cheap.
The generator should put out enough to cause the cutout relay to latch. Please let us know what you are using as a meter, and where you ground the leads to show readings. Jim
 
I’m using a Fluke multimeter. I’m grounding the - to chassis, and + on the A post of the generator.
 
With it running, put a 10gauge jumper between the A terminal of the VR, and the B terminal. It should spark, then read the voltage at the battery. My guess it is a good generator with a bad pull in winding in the cutout. Jim
 
Probably a basic question, but is the cutout inside the generator? Thanks for all the answers/help so far, I'm trying to learn as I go!!!
 
The open unloaded voltage on a genny of 20 volts sounds reasonable subject to genny and rpm. If it’s charging battery voltage should rise to at least 13 up to 14 or so snd that 12.1 is not charging. Running at fast rpm take a jumper snd temporarily ground the gennys FLD post. If it charges then but not otherwise the genny is ok so the vr may be bad or not well grounded. Work my procedure shown above to tell if genny or vr is the problem. I’m assuming it’s a genny not an alternator. Insure the vr is grounded. The vr is a big metal black box on or near the genny it’s not inside

John T
 
Ok. So I think I narrowed it down to the VR as the gen. test grounding the field term. produced a charge. Put on a new VR. It’s a three term. for + or - ground. There’s a fourth terminal under the VR, looks like it connects to the frame where I bolted the VR to the tractor tin, so that may be a ground terminal? Now I’ve got no readings on the A term. or F terminal. HELP!!!
 
Probably a basic question, but is the cutout inside the generator? Thanks for all the answers/help so far, I'm trying to learn as I go!!!
The cutout is in the VR
Ok. So I think I narrowed it down to the VR as the gen. test grounding the field term. produced a charge. Put on a new VR. It’s a three term. for + or - ground. There’s a fourth terminal under the VR, looks like it connects to the frame where I bolted the VR to the tractor tin, so that may be a ground terminal? Now I’ve got no readings on the A term. or F terminal. HELP!!!
If the "under side" terminal has an "L" on it it is really not for that generator. I have seen it on IH tractors and powers the lights. Jim
 
According to Case/IH website parts lookup, I need a G 444852 or G44856 VR. Neither are available on their website. Any ideas on substitutions or aftermarket VR's?
 
Well, here's the conclusion to the story. The generator had bad fields and the voltage regulator was going bad. Had the generator rebuilt, and they found a voltage regulator suitable for what I needed. Now she's back up and running.
I eally appreciate all of the knowledge you all provided for me! Thank you!
Jeff
 

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