Case 530. No start...

[maddyb]

Hi! New tractor owner here with a starting problem.

Background:

We bought a Case 530(at least that was how it was advertised, the serial number plate is missing) a couple of weeks ago. Gas engine. Watched it start, drive forward and reverse, hydraulics on FEL(model 31) and Eagle hitch work with no bleed down.

Owner said he had run the battery down by leaving the lights on and had to jump start it for us.

When we picked it up it was hard to start, the neutral safety lever had to be pushed repeatedly until it made contact. Was blamed on the battery being weak.

We got it home and took the starter and solenoid to a repair shop, they tested fine. Took the generator in too, and had it rebuilt and also got a new voltage regulator.

Then had a tractor expert mechanic come out to give it a once over, he fixed some filter problems,(Seals, cleaning out), checked all fluids,started it, drove it, he pronounced it to be a really good strong tractor, but we needed a new battery and cables.

So we finally got a new battery and cables and put them in.

No start. Not even a click. Used a trouble light to check ignition switch. It works. Took the wires off the neutral safety switch and trouble light shows is getting power in the wires. We jumpered them , turned the key on, nothing.

It seems like it should be a simple problem but we haven't been able to figure it out...

 

[rvirgil_KS]

1. Are you getting voltage to activating post on solenoid when you try to start it?

2. Where is your battery grounded? If it is grounded to sheet metal such as battery tray try moving it to tractor frame near starter. Make sure this connection is clean, bright, and tight. It is possible for battery ground to pass enough current for you to see voltage on the solenoid, but not enough current to run the starter.

 

[maddyb]

Well, the ground attaches to the starter where it attaches to the tractor bell housing.
Hubby is going down there now the check the connection.

He's back. He says he "checked continuity" of the battery cables.
At the starter solenoid the voltage between that and the starter mounting bolt ground is 12.7- 12.88. Same as battery.
All connections were tight.

Voltage reading from battery negative to each screw on neutral safety switch is 12.67ish on one and 11.67ish on the other. Reading across screw to screw of switch is .5v until the safety lever is thrown then voltage goes to zero.

No change at solenoid when key is on and safety switch is jumpered.

 

[maddyb]

Picture of tractor

 

[maddyb]

Headlights work, dashboard works, etc. But doesn't even have a solenoid click when
using neutral safety switch lever, or jumper the safety switch wires...

It's there something under the panel where the neutral safety lever is that could be
worn out, or broken? But even so, shouldn't jumpering the wires work around that?

What is "another way" to get it started, assuming it is in neutral?

Very frustrating, knowing it started before we put the new battery in, even if it took a few tries with the safety lever and using jumper cables on the old battery....

 

[kevinthefixer]

Look at the small screw(s) on the solenoid. This will be a two-person job unless you have a voltmeter with alligator clips. MAKE SURE TRACTOR IS IN NEUTRAL as we'll be bypassing ALL safety interlocks. If you have two small screws on the solenoid look for the one marked s for start. Measure voltage there relative to frame ground while you try to start the tractor. If you get battery voltage there, and still no click, see if you get voltage at the starter itself. If so tap the starter with a light hammer, if you have a stuck brush that might get it going. Try tapping even more lightly on the solenoid. If you don't get power to the s terminal trace the wiring back until you find out where it's not getting through. Do you have a wiring diagram? Makes wire tracing much easier.

 

[kevinthefixer]

Wups, hit the wrong button. Anyway next try a jumper wire between the solenoid's battery terminal and the S terminal. Tractor should crank and try to start, so see above warning about Neutral! If it doesn't try to crank, check your voltages while jumping those terminals. Next take some jumper cables, good HD ones, and jump across the solenoid's two large terminals so you're sending battery voltage straight to the starter. Might be a bit anemic, jumper cables really aren't all that, but it should try to crank. By now you should have enough info to tell what's wrong.

 

[maddyb]

Kevin, thank you so much for the advice. It started when he was measuring the voltage
of the the solenoid when hitting the start lever.

I was on the tractor with it in neutral, the key on, and he asked me to hit the start
lever so he could watch the voltage. Instead, it started! We were both so surprised!
Now he thinks he knows what wire is bad, even though he checked it before.

I think I've told this right. He's out there playing with his new WORKING tractor...

You were a great help!

 

[maddyb]

rvirgil thank you for your help! Tracing wires and connectors can be so frustrating, it always helps to get some good advice!

I emphasized your " clean, bright, and tight" to him more than once!

 

[maddyb]

Thought I'd add, the dashboard is original, and the amps, temperature, and oil pressure are working!

The needle is missing from the tach so can't tell if it works. I don't know what the other large guage on the bottom left is, can't read it. The fuel gauge seems to stuck or not working. It's sitting on empty with 10 gallons of gas in there (20 gallon tank).

 

[kevinthefixer]

Same cluster my 611B had. Other large gauge is speedo. Try grounding the fuel sensor at the tank, that is ground the center contact in the round thingie on top of the tank with 6 or 8 screws around the edge. Turn the key on and the gauge should go all the way up if the only problem is the float sensor in the tank (they rust up and wear out both).

 

[kevinthefixer]

Oh and if that works, make sure there's a ground wire to one of the outer-ring screws. The tank may set in rubber and not be properly grounded. Could be the whole problem. Again I advise you to get a wiring diagram, they are lifesavers. Or at least time- and money-savers.

 

[maddyb]

Thanks Kevin!
We have two wiring diagrams, one in a 530 manual, one from the internet. They don't agree totally.

I have a question - the tractor came with negative grounding, and the manual and other diagram show positive grounding.

The tractor mech said not to change it.

We never heard of positive grounding, how does that make a difference?

 

[kevinthefixer]

Positive ground systems were common up to 1960 or so, American cars went to negative ground first, then Japanese and European ones. Not sure when equipment manufacturers changed over, I didn't start working on tractors and such until the 90s. On your tractor with a points-and-coil ignition, the main thing you need to worry about is having the (-) side of the coil wired to the distributor and the (+) side to power (igition switch). The starter spins the same either way so that's OK. Should you decide to add electronic accessories, including LED lights, negative ground will be almost a necessity unless you're an electronic whiz kid. Not an electrician, I tell all my electrician customers to leave their electrical systems alone, the ones that didn't listen wound up paying me many times over for the repairs. AFAIK all alternators are negative ground so sticking with neg ground makes it easier to switch to an alternator if the generator gives out. I wasted a lot of time trouble and money trying to get my gen working, it was just too sick, I now have an alternator 1/2 its size and almost twice as powerful and a simplified wiring diagram. Speaking of wiring diagrams, you should use the one that agrees best with what's under your hood. It'll probably be the one in the manual. Have fun with your nu2u tractor, but not too much fun! Keep in mind it's capable of crushing both cars on its way to flattening the house, and you're no more than a bug to step on accidentally.