Case 930 CK engine upgrade

[Jake palmer]

I have a 68 western special that spun number 4 rod bearing. I’m going to try and polish it up to get by until I can figure out and engine upgrade. From what I’ve read the 504 should bolt right up aside from a little fabrication for steering shaft and throttle linkage. Has anyone done something similar or have some insite for this project?

 

[jon f mn]

The western should be a wet clutch model and if it is no other engine swaps in except other wet clutch tractors like the 900 and 600. If its the 8 spd dry clutch then all engines from the 400 round nose through all the 504 models will bolt in except for the issues you mention and a few more like plumbing and such.

 

[caterpillar guy]

I don't under stand all the engine problems with the case engines. We had an 830CK gas that had no engine problems other than the usual gas engine problems with 2500 hours on it when it left and we had a 930western with the stupid hand clutch was never a problem with the tractors it had a few minor issues like the low pressure on the hydraulics we jacked up to 1500-2000 area so it would lift the disc and planter . And needed batteries for it. just mior regular things power steering leaks. Engine worked fine and was worked hard while we had it hitched to 6-16's for most of a spring all day day in and day out would work fine on it. Bought used and work hard and put away wet. Ran in hot weather with no heating problems chopping and blowing hay. Neighbor had trouble with all of his 530,730,930,1030,all had engine trouble of one sort or the other bearings rods sleeves pumps you name it he had it. We worked both of them pretty hard over the time we had them. Pulled 4 -16's with the 830 some of the time. .

 

[jon f mn]

I don't under stand all the engine problems with the case engines. We had an 830CK gas that had no engine problems other than the usual gas engine problems with 2500 hours on it when it left and we had a 930western with the stupid hand clutch was never a problem with the tractors it had a few minor issues like the low pressure on the hydraulics we jacked up to 1500-2000 area so it would lift the disc and planter . And needed batteries for it. just mior regular things power steering leaks. Engine worked fine and was worked hard while we had it hitched to 6-16's for most of a spring all day day in and day out would work fine on it. Bought used and work hard and put away wet. Ran in hot weather with no heating problems chopping and blowing hay. Neighbor had trouble with all of his 530,730,930,1030,all had engine trouble of one sort or the other bearings rods sleeves pumps you name it he had it. We worked both of them pretty hard over the time we had them. Pulled 4 -16's with the 830 some of the time. .

Your neighbor must have been doing something wrong. They will Crack heads if you shut them down hot, but otherwise they are about the most reliable engines out there. Injection problems with the inline pumps are about unheard of.

 

[Jake palmer]

it has the 8 speed so I believe it's the dry clutch unless I am mistaken. it's been on my grandpa's farm forever. My dad used to work it pretty hard, and it was a good tractor for a lot of years. In the later years it became the old crappy tractor eventually and maintenance became lack luster. About 3 years ago the story is it lost oil pressure, so they pushed it in the goat pen and left it to rot. I got it running, threw new oil in and even raked first crop hay with it with no issue. Good oil pressure and no knock. Fired it up a week ago and it would knock bad so I pulled the pan It appears to have some bad liner o rings allowing a little water to get in the oil which probably led to the bearing failure. It's got about 5500 hours on it with pretty much no major issues. probably would've gone farther with better maintenance. The only value the tractor really has is the sentimental kind which is why I thought it would be fun for a custom project. I'll never work it very hard, but power is power and, in my opinion, everything is better with a turbo. Am I crazy for even trying?

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I don't under stand all the engine problems with the case engines. We had an 830CK gas that had no engine problems other than the usual gas engine problems with 2500 hours on it when it left and we had a 930western with the stupid hand clutch was never a problem with the tractors it had a few minor issues like the low pressure on the hydraulics we jacked up to 1500-2000 area so it would lift the disc and planter . And needed batteries for it. just mior regular things power steering leaks. Engine worked fine and was worked hard while we had it hitched to 6-16's for most of a spring all day day in and day out would work fine on it. Bought used and work hard and put away wet. Ran in hot weather with no heating problems chopping and blowing hay. Neighbor had trouble with all of his 530,730,930,1030,all had engine trouble of one sort or the other bearings rods sleeves pumps you name it he had it. We worked both of them pretty hard over the time we had them. Pulled 4 -16's with the 830 some of the time. .

6-16s? On a 930?

 

[jon f mn]

6-16s? On a 930?

Lots of the 6spd 930s were sold with 6 bottom plows, or 4-16s with packer and drill in the Dakotas and parts west. Those that had both said the 930 6spd did as much or more than the 100hp 1030.

 

[jon f mn]

it has the 8 speed so I believe it's the dry clutch unless I am mistaken. it's been on my grandpa's farm forever. My dad used to work it pretty hard, and it was a good tractor for a lot of years. In the later years it became the old crappy tractor eventually and maintenance became lack luster. About 3 years ago the story is it lost oil pressure, so they pushed it in the goat pen and left it to rot. I got it running, threw new oil in and even raked first crop hay with it with no issue. Good oil pressure and no knock. Fired it up a week ago and it would knock bad so I pulled the pan It appears to have some bad liner o rings allowing a little water to get in the oil which probably led to the bearing failure. It's got about 5500 hours on it with pretty much no major issues. probably would've gone farther with better maintenance. The only value the tractor really has is the sentimental kind which is why I thought it would be fun for a custom project. I'll never work it very hard, but power is power and, in my opinion, everything is better with a turbo. Am I crazy for even trying?

Your not crazy and its been done quite a bit. As long as you dont load it down and pull it hard it will be fine. It's not a hard job at all. The throttle and steering shaft hole are not hard at all. The water manifold won't line up right either and is a bit of a challenge. You need to grind out the front casting below the front pulley for room, also not a bad job. The flywheel gets a bit more dicey, the 930 had 2 different ones, one had 2 shoulder bolts so won't work on the 504 crank. If yours has 5 bolts all the same just swap it over and your clutch will work. You can also make the 504 flywheel work with some machining.

If you keep the turbo making the hood fit gets a bit tougher too. I've seen them cut out or modified to go over the turbo. You can also make an adaptor for the manifold to tilt the turbo to get it inside the hood.

 

[Jake palmer]

Your not crazy and its been done quite a bit. As long as you dont load it down and pull it hard it will be fine. It's not a hard job at all. The throttle and steering shaft hole are not hard at all. The water manifold won't line up right either and is a bit of a challenge. You need to grind out the front casting below the front pulley for room, also not a bad job. The flywheel gets a bit more dicey, the 930 had 2 different ones, one had 2 shoulder bolts so won't work on the 504 crank. If yours has 5 bolts all the same just swap it over and your clutch will work. You can also make the 504 flywheel work with some machining.

If you keep the turbo making the hood fit gets a bit tougher too. I've seen them cut out or modified to go over the turbo. You can also make an adaptor for the manifold to tilt the turbo to get it inside the hood.

Are there other manifold options from say a loader or something or are they all about the same?

 

[jon f mn]

Are there other manifold options from say a loader or something or are they all about the same?

The main manifold is all the same, and if you use a turbo they all bolt to it. There are versions of the exit pipe for nonturbo models that are different. What some have done is fab a spacer to bolt to the manifold that tilts the turbo some away from the hood. .most just cut a notch in the side of the hood to make space.

 

[Janicholson]

Unless there is specific boost limits, and better than poor compression due to .080 reduced height in the block as well as a substantial depression in the piston head, it won't make a reliable tractor, it might not even start. Improper valve depth into the cylinder can cause nasty starting issues. so your use of a turbo won't help if it won't run. Jim

 

[Jake palmer]

The main manifold is all the same, and if you use a turbo they all bolt to it. There are versions of the exit pipe for nonturbo models that are different. What some have done is fab a spacer to bolt to the manifold that tilts the turbo some away from the hood. .most just cut a notch in the side of the hood to make space.

ok. Either way sounds like a pretty straightforward swap. I’ll have to look at my flywheel and see how many gilts it has. I’m going to be on the lookout for an engine then. Should be a fun project.

 

[Jake palmer]

Unless there is specific boost limits, and better than poor compression due to .080 reduced height in the block as well as a substantial depression in the piston head, it won't make a reliable tractor, it might not even start. Improper valve depth into the cylinder can cause nasty starting issues. so your use of a turbo won't help if it won't run. Jim

I think you are as confused as I am after reading your post. Haha. I’m Not adding a turbo to the 401 but swapping in a turbo 504

 

[Janicholson]

I think you are as confused as I am after reading your post. Haha. I’m Not adding a turbo to the 401 but swapping in a turbo 504

My post was made yesterday and I failed to push the "post reply" button. so sorry. Changing engines is the best option. Jim

 

[Jake palmer]

Any good or bad years of the 504? I heard the very early ones had a hew crank issues.

 

[jon f mn]

ok. Either way sounds like a pretty straightforward swap. I’ll have to look at my flywheel and see how many gilts it has. I’m going to be on the lookout for an engine then. Should be a fun project.

All flywheel have 5 bolts and the heads are the same. Some use all 4 regular bolts and some have 2 shoulder bolts. So the only way to tell is to take it off.

 

[jon f mn]

Any good or bad years of the 504? I heard the very early ones had a hew crank issues.

There are head differences for 90 series and newer that used pencil injectors. The 2670 and 4690/94 have larger valves. There are large journal and small journal versions. All construction engines and the 20/2290/94 are small journal engines. The 13/15/24/2670 and larger 90/94 series are all large journal. For you that makes little difference. The only difference is the rod bearings are larger on the large journal engines. The small journal engines are snappier and quicker to rev, but otherwise they are about the same.

 

[Jake palmer]

there is a 2470 for sale for $2500 about 5 hours from me. Has decent tires, duals, and seems to run good. 3500ish hours. Might be a decent donor.

 

[Jake palmer]

View attachment IMG_9108.jpegFound this 2470 a few miles from my shop. 7k hours but turbo and heads are unpainted so I’m thinking it’s probably been rebuilt. Trans issues but should run and drive enough to get it to my shop. Got it for $500 so figure I can’t go wrong. So if I understand correctly this will have the big crank but older injectors. Or is it possible that it got different heads and pencil injectors? They would be threaded into head versus held in with a hold down bolt correct?

 

[Eagle Doc]

View attachment 125356Found this 2470 a few miles from my shop. 7k hours but turbo and heads are unpainted so I’m thinking it’s probably been rebuilt. Trans issues but should run and drive enough to get it to my shop. Got it for $500 so figure I can’t go wrong. So if I understand correctly this will have the big crank but older injectors. Or is it possible that it got different heads and pencil injectors? They would be threaded into head versus held in with a hold down bolt correct?

The 2470 injectors are pencil type held in with a bolt and bracket. 90 series have a nut that screws into the head.