charge indicator light won't shut off

[gooseroller]

Any ideas why the charge indicator light on my 981 won't shut off even when the key is removed from the tractor?

 

[old]

Ya good chance the V.R. is sticking closed which will in turn discharge the battery over time

 

[souNdguy]

still vr and gen like old mentions, or is it an alternator setup?

 

[gooseroller]

It is a generator system, the guy that sold me the tractor told me it was a 1963 but I can't verify that. I have the manual for it, is there a fix for a stuck voltage regulator or do I need to replace it? I will be asking a lot of questions over the next few weeks as I have never owned a tractor before.

 

[old]

If it is in fact a 981 the last year they where made was 1962 in 1963 they went to the thousand series tractors
As for the V.R. if sticking now it will stick again in the future so best to replace it

 

[pinball]

I can get an alternator here for 52 bucks. I have changed my fords over to that. They charge great. With the price of batterys the alternator has paid for it self. you also could have a problem with your generator feeding back from the battery. either way it will run your battery down. start your tractor and then remove the positive side cable. if the tractor keeps on running then your charging system is working. if tractor stops then you have a problem with your charging system. just my 3 cents worth. norm in Missouri---GO ROYALS

 

[old]

Pulling a battery cable off like that is a good way to harm the charging system and if you have an alternator it can be a good way to put you 6 foot under since an alternator can put out enough volts and amps to electrocute a man

 

[gooseroller]

What is involved in switching to an alternator?

 

[gooseroller]

When I have the charger on the battery, the generator is hot to the touch, that doesn't seem right to me, the ignition switch is off but there is current reaching the generator somehow?

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:12:27 10/28/15) When I have the charger on the battery, the generator is hot to the touch, that doesn't seem right to me, the ignition switch is off but there is current reaching the generator somehow?

y way of the stuck contacts in the VR that you were told about. Whack it with a hammer or replace it.

 

[Bern]

Never heard of an alternator killing anyone. If they could, they would be covered with warning stickers.

 

[old]

Well back when I was in the Navy I almost got wrote up for doing that and then was explained to me that and alternator can and will put out well over 90 volts at 35 plus amps both of which is by far more then it takes to kill. As fro warnings well if your dumb enough to pull a battery cable off with the engine running you should not be holding any wrenches in your hands any how. And yes it was also proven to me by hooking up a meter and taking a reading off an alternator with the engine running and battery unhooked and yep 90 plus volts on the volt meter

 

[gooseroller]

Whacking it with a hammer worked, but I bet that means I should have a spare handy.

 

[Bern]

90 volts is not enough to kill, especially on a machine not anchored to the ground. As for the lack of warning labels, keep in mind that warning labels are not just for techs, but rather primarily for the stupid owners.

As for "killer alternators", I still don't buy it. I've never heard of it happening, and I doubt you could find a story to prove it, at least with regards to 12V alternators.

 

[old]

Ah but volts do not kill and it only take 32 volt to pass the human skin in normal conditions. Now what does kill is amps and it takes less then a amp to kill at 32 volts and if you say held the + cable and hand your other hand on the body of what ever that means the amps pass right threw you heart and that can mean DEAD. I know for sure an alternator can and will give you a nasty shock I have had it happen. Me I would prefer to warn a person then to have some one get hurt and checking if something is charging by pulling a battery cable off no matter with is a stupid way to check things. Doing so can and will harm the charging system and yes a person also if conditions are right. So are you saying doing the battery cable thing is a good thing??????????? If no then why this bull

 

[John B.]

An alternator has limited output but a generator has infinite output.

 

[old]

And what does that have to do with the safety of pulling a battery cable off bad no matter what or why and in fact a stupid way to check if the charging system is working

 

[John B.]

What you have is a stuck regulator. The points may be welded together or spring tension needs adjusted. I would replace the regulator. The reverse current relay in the voltage regulator is the only thing that can cause this with a generator charging system.

When you turn the ignition on your charge light should come on. This means current is flowing from the battery thru the reverse current relay in the regulator into the generator then to ground that makes the light come on. When the generator starts charging the only thing that reverses is the current in that circuit which is now flowing from the generator to the battery. This causes the same voltage on both sides of your charge light and the light goes off.

When you shut the engine off and when the generator stops charging current tries to reverse and enter into the generator from the battery but there is that split second that current stops in one direction then starts in the opposite direction. When this happens the reverse current relay opens and keeps the battery from being drained. This is why it's called the reversed current relay. Hope this makes sense. In school 35 years ago many of the guys didn't understand this.

 

[gooseroller]

Thanks for the reply, it makes perfect sense and I will order a new vr asap.

 

[old]

Yep V.R. is sticking which in turn feeds back voltage to the generator when your trying to charge the battery and the generator is trying to motor but can not so it gets warm/hot which can in turn cause it to burn out. Not all that hard to switch to 12 volts and an alternator but not easy unless you have the know how. Me I can almost do it in my sleep but I have done 50 plus of them

 

[Bern]

Go back and read my prior replies. I have never advocated pulling a battery cable with the engine running. The only reason I responded to you is because I disagree with your contention that alternators can kill. If they could, they'd be shielded far better than they are now. If 90 volts could kill, there wouldn't be a single 120V electrical outlet in a grade school without a padlock on it.

 

[pinball]

If you get a generator you will do away with the voltage regulator as its built in to the alternator. Two wires to hook up unless you get a one wire. Easy to hook up. Real only problem is making sure you can use your existing bracket. Take the wire off of the amp meter and see if the generator light goes out when you turn your switch off. I suspect your generator should be hooked up on the line side of your switch so there is no feed to it from the battery when its turned off. At least that's the way my alternators are hooked up. Generator may be different though.

 

[pinball]

Are you saying a 12 volt alternator puts out 90 volts.

 

[Bern]

Minor point....what you call the "reverse current relay" is usually called the cutout relay by most manufacturers.

 

[souNdguy]

if gen is hot during external battery charge, vreg is stuck, as said.

 

[sotxbill]

aside from all the noise....


disconnect battery. pull cover off vr... take a points file and file the carbon and specks off all the contacts. As others have said,, the cutout relay stuck close. examine the relay for bugs, mud dubbers, etc to see if anything is making it fail... after you clean it, it should stay open or you need to replace it. reconnect battery and test. If works correctly, disconnect battery, replace cover, and reconnect battery.


Sometimes cleaning will fix it forever, other times it will stick again and you will need a new vr... or as others have said.. convert to 12volts install a delco alternator on it and be done.

 

[old]

It can if you pull the battery cable of when the engine is running due to the fact it will see a dead battery and go to max charge and that in turn can cause it to fry things and then put out a lot of volts of 90plus and in turn if a person gets between the battery cable and ground it can kill some one

 

[old]

Bull over the years many children have been killed by playing with outlets and that is why they make covers that plug into them so a child can not stick things in them. And yes 90 volts a can kill shoot I know how to kill you using a simple D cell flash light battery

 

[Sean in PA]

It is not voltage that kills, it is amperage (current). Voltage is just the potential for current to flow and the amount of current that does flow from any particular voltage depends on the impedance (resistance in DC circuits). It is the actually flow of the current that can kill. So very small voltages, if applied properly can kill, especially if that voltage is backed up with the ability to provide a high sustained current. A pacemaker applies a very small voltage directly to the heart for very short pulses, but if that same voltage were applied to the heart continuously for several seconds then the heart would stop and you would die.

 

[old]

Yep as per the U.S. Navy E.T. school it takes 1 milliamp to kill. That is why an electric fence will not kill a person or the shock fro ma spark plug wire will not kill.

 

[sotxbill]

Reminds me that when alternators first came out... Motorola did a commercial where they pulled out the battery and drove the car cross country with out a battery, showing how reliable the alternator was. Even at idle, it supplied enough power to keep the car going. The voltage regulator kept the voltage at 14.2 volts.. with or without a battery. They even ran it up in Alaska. Of course they had to use a battery every morning to start the car, then till it parked then next time, no battery.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 20:02:32 10/29/15)
Reminds me that when alternators first came out... Motorola did a commercial where they pulled out the battery and drove the car cross country with out a battery, showing how reliable the alternator was. Even at idle, it supplied enough power to keep the car going. The voltage regulator kept the voltage at 14.2 volts.. with or without a battery. They even ran it up in Alaska. Of course they had to use a battery every morning to start the car, then till it parked then next time, no battery.

es, people have experience with a single thing/alternator & ever after they some how think that all others are exactly the same!! Even ALL 10SI alternators do not behave the same. GM changed the VR design along the way. Early 10SI units went to full output when they lost the sense input, but later units went to Zero. Generalizations are almost always wrong!