Clutch not releasing

[alberta dave]

The saga of my 1850 D engine swap continues. After finally getting my flywheel back on (I never did use thread locker having found useable anti rotation clips) I installed the clutch and pressure plate using a line up bar ( old shaft out of a disassembled 2 speed)

I had taken flywheel in for refacing and put in a new Hy Cap clutch but only had a used a pressure plate that was in excellent shape from a parts tractor. I checked the clutch for distortion on another spare flywheel I had refaced last year. It was flat and looked perfect. Because my flywheel is stepped I left out the spacer washers, bolted it all up to the correct torque. Once I got the 3 speed box bolted up I even tested the clutch by using a bar to deploy the clutch on the floor and I was able to turn the rear sprocket by hand. All looked good so I installed the engine.

The good news is the engine is great, starts easy, smooth like the day it was new, probably the smoothest engine on the farm.

But the clutch is not right. I set the clutch up as usual and have my chore tractor for reference so I am pretty sure it was set up correctly. I started the engine in neutral and have a very good view of the chain coupler. I let the engine run for a few minutes checking for leaks and changed out the oil gauge line. Restarted it in gear with the clutch depressed, when I moved the clutch seemed a bit touchy but I figured that was ok as I would be adjusting it anyways. Then I could see that the clutch brake was doing little to slow the chain rotation. I put the tractor in 6th gear, started the engine and took it for a short run down the lane and the power shift worked great but the clutch still did not feel like it should.

I have tried adjusting the clutch but now when I start the engine if I am in gear the tractor moves, the clutch although it feels like I have good pedal travel does nothing to slow or stop the motion. I looked in the inspection window and can see the pressure plate fingers being compressed and released as I work the clutch and the release bearing slides fully clear of the clutch fingers as it should but my new clutch is not releasing.

I ask for your thoughts on what I need to do? I thought maybe a hammer on the pressure plate or maybe a longer drive to see if things wear in?

I am stumped......and I need to cut hay tomorrow.

 

[Oakridgewelding]

Are you adjusting the clutch just by the adjustment rod? I just did a clutch job on a MM and had the same problem. What I found out was, the new friction plate was thicker then what was originally spec'd. I had to adjust the clutch fingers before I could get it to work. Once I did that everything worked right.

 

[rrlund]

I know hind sight's 20/20, but it's best to take the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel to a clutch shop and have them set everything up. That said, I've had to get creative a couple of times. I had to weld another nut to the clevis of the linkage of my 1550 because a new clutch was so thick one time, until it wore down enough to put a good one back on off of a parts tractor. I didn't want to pull the engine back out of my 1600, so I took the angle grinder and cut a hole in the bottom of the bell housing so I could loosen the bolts of the pressure plate, then take them out one at a time and put a flat washer between the flywheel and pressure plate and flywheel on every bolt. I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't had another bell housing here for it.

Not that I recommend doing any of that, but you'll probably have to pull it back out and adjust the pressure plate by the book.

 

[tom upton]

Assuming the step in flywheel is correct. I think it is supposed to be .100 or maybe .125? There are no broken ajustment bolts on your fingers? The clutch adjustment rod is in the lower hole where it attaches to the clutch lever arm? The release fingers as others have said are set close to correct hieght and more important all the same hieght. You should be able to adjust clutch rod until it releases. If you reduce or even eliminate the free play does it release?

 

[Oakridgewelding]

Assuming the step in flywheel is correct. I think it is supposed to be .100 or maybe .125? There are no broken ajustment bolts on your fingers? The clutch adjustment rod is in the lower hole where it attaches to the clutch lever arm? The release fingers as others have said are set close to correct hieght and more important all the same hieght. You should be able to adjust clutch rod until it releases. If you reduce or even eliminate the free play does it release?

I had to mill the edge of the pressure plate down to fit in the flywheel step on this MM also. Was way out of round.

 

[NY 986]

I know hind sight's 20/20, but it's best to take the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel to a clutch shop and have them set everything up. That said, I've had to get creative a couple of times. I had to weld another nut to the clevis of the linkage of my 1550 because a new clutch was so thick one time, until it wore down enough to put a good one back on off of a parts tractor. I didn't want to pull the engine back out of my 1600, so I took the angle grinder and cut a hole in the bottom of the bell housing so I could loosen the bolts of the pressure plate, then take them out one at a time and put a flat washer between the flywheel and pressure plate and flywheel on every bolt. I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't had another bell housing here for it.

Not that I recommend doing any of that, but you'll probably have to pull it back out and adjust the pressure plate by the book.

Did you wind up putting the other bell housing on? Did you weld the piece back into the first housing?

 

[NY 986]

I know hind sight's 20/20, but it's best to take the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel to a clutch shop and have them set everything up. That said, I've had to get creative a couple of times. I had to weld another nut to the clevis of the linkage of my 1550 because a new clutch was so thick one time, until it wore down enough to put a good one back on off of a parts tractor. I didn't want to pull the engine back out of my 1600, so I took the angle grinder and cut a hole in the bottom of the bell housing so I could loosen the bolts of the pressure plate, then take them out one at a time and put a flat washer between the flywheel and pressure plate and flywheel on every bolt. I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't had another bell housing here for it.

Not that I recommend doing any of that, but you'll probably have to pull it back out and adjust the pressure plate by the book.

Did you wind up putting the other bell housing on? Did you weld the piece back into the first housing?

 

[alberta dave]

The step is .125 and I set the spacer washers on the face to check. Slept on it last night and I remember that the tractor that donated the pressure plate had a full face style clutch. The new clutch I put in the tractor I am working on was a tab style plate.

The whole clutch set up from the parts tractor had almost zero wear. The previous owner had the clutch done by a fellow who works on 1850's but they never greased the throw out bearing and it simply burned up and fell apart shortly after putting the tractor to work. The clutch and the pressure plate were hardly worn so I thought I could get away with re-using the parts. Maybe I should have stayed with the full friction plate style clutch instead of the tab style?

 

[alberta dave]

Are you adjusting the clutch just by the adjustment rod? I just did a clutch job on a MM and had the same problem. What I found out was, the new friction plate was thicker then what was originally spec'd. I had to adjust the clutch fingers before I could get it to work. Once I did that everything worked right.

I was just using the rod. I do not know how to adjust the fingers but I assume I would need to pull the engine back out and split the power shift from the bell housing.

 

[alberta dave]

Assuming the step in flywheel is correct. I think it is supposed to be .100 or maybe .125? There are no broken ajustment bolts on your fingers? The clutch adjustment rod is in the lower hole where it attaches to the clutch lever arm? The release fingers as others have said are set close to correct hieght and more important all the same hieght. You should be able to adjust clutch rod until it releases. If you reduce or even eliminate the free play does it release?

No, even with the free play dialed out it is still dragging.

 

[rrlund]

Did you wind up putting the other bell housing on? Did you weld the piece back into the first housing?

To tell you the truth, the hole is still in it and the other bell housing is back I the corner of the tool shed. I'll change it some day when I have it apart again.

 

[Oakridgewelding]

I was just using the rod. I do not know how to adjust the fingers but I assume I would need to pull the engine back out and split the power shift from the bell housing.

Not familar with the Olivers but probably so. On this MM I used a straight edge ruler or level over the clutch fingers then measured down to the flywheel. I did have a set of books to go by. I had to adjust the bolts on the clutch fingers a good 1/4 inch. Each clutch finger should have a bolt and a lock nut on them. Loosen the lock bolt and turn your bolt in or out to move the finger to give you more free travel. Your set up may vary but that's the general idea.

 

[matthies]

Hy Cap has sent out the wrong parts on an Oliver before.

 

[tom upton]

The step is .125 and I set the spacer washers on the face to check. Slept on it last night and I remember that the tractor that donated the pressure plate had a full face style clutch. The new clutch I put in the tractor I am working on was a tab style plate.

The whole clutch set up from the parts tractor had almost zero wear. The previous owner had the clutch done by a fellow who works on 1850's but they never greased the throw out bearing and it simply burned up and fell apart shortly after putting the tractor to work. The clutch and the pressure plate were hardly worn so I thought I could get away with re-using the parts. Maybe I should have stayed with the full friction plate style clutch instead of the tab style?

Obviosly if the full face disc is thinner it might solve your problem but it looks like you are into taking her apart either way. If you need the hieght to set fingers I could look it up for you? I always check new pressure plates with a dial indicator on my surface plate to see is they are correct and the same hieght. There are times when even a new unit needs adjusted. Its not that hard to do, just make sure you restake the adjustment nuts. Even a drop of locktite will wick into the threads for an added security.

 

[alberta dave]

Hy Cap has sent out the wrong parts on an Oliver before.

I suppose that could have happened but I did a quick look and see by holding up the used clutch that came out and it matched the new one. Its always a good idea to compare the new parts with old ones. I have a growing stock of worn out parts.........it never ends.

 

[alberta dave]

Obviosly if the full face disc is thinner it might solve your problem but it looks like you are into taking her apart either way. If you need the hieght to set fingers I could look it up for you? I always check new pressure plates with a dial indicator on my surface plate to see is they are correct and the same hieght. There are times when even a new unit needs adjusted. Its not that hard to do, just make sure you restake the adjustment nuts. Even a drop of locktite will wick into the threads for an added security.

I wish I had calipered both the full face and the tab disc thickness before slapping it together. I just thought that even if there was a difference I could adjust it out with the clutch linkage. This is the only tractor I have with a stepped flywheel so its the first time not using the spacer washers when bolting up the pressure plate. I think I will just order a new pressure plate and clutch kit. So if I order Monday then it will be here Tuesday. I would be lucky if I can get it back together by next weekend. It is not looking good for my last 4 acres of second cut.

Maybe if I stay up all night and change the PTO clutches on my loader tractor I can use it for haying? Everything with wheels is needing so sort of significant repair these days.

 

[tom upton]

I wish I had calipered both the full face and the tab disc thickness before slapping it together. I just thought that even if there was a difference I could adjust it out with the clutch linkage. This is the only tractor I have with a stepped flywheel so its the first time not using the spacer washers when bolting up the pressure plate. I think I will just order a new pressure plate and clutch kit. So if I order Monday then it will be here Tuesday. I would be lucky if I can get it back together by next weekend. It is not looking good for my last 4 acres of second cut.

Maybe if I stay up all night and change the PTO clutches on my loader tractor I can use it for haying? Everything with wheels is needing so sort of significant repair these days.

If your second cut has alfalfa in it I wouldnt cut it this time of year anyway! One thing I have found about trying to farm with older tractors you just need to have lots of them and one is bound to work for you! I would much rather tinker with old tractors than make payments on a new one! Good luck with your 1850 they are one of the best.

 

[alberta dave]

If your second cut has alfalfa in it I wouldnt cut it this time of year anyway! One thing I have found about trying to farm with older tractors you just need to have lots of them and one is bound to work for you! I would much rather tinker with old tractors than make payments on a new one! Good luck with your 1850 they are one of the best.

Sadly I do have lots of old tractors....... they are all broken. I have a TYM 65 hp tractor parked in the yard that I borrowed to finish my baling when the PTO failed on one of my tractors. It was nice to drive and did the job but I was terrified at how fragile it felt. Surrounded by big windows that could easily break, I winched every time I crawled in and closed the door. Plastic controls that belong in a cheap car, electronic dash that belongs no where I can think of and that will snap in the cold, plastic hood that will shatter the first time a board or branch falls on it.

I was so happy to try a modern tractor but the experience convinced me to go deeper into old iron that is rugged and built to take a beating.
Just like me! haha

 

[trackrat]

I know hind sight's 20/20, but it's best to take the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel to a clutch shop and have them set everything up. That said, I've had to get creative a couple of times. I had to weld another nut to the clevis of the linkage of my 1550 because a new clutch was so thick one time, until it wore down enough to put a good one back on off of a parts tractor. I didn't want to pull the engine back out of my 1600, so I took the angle grinder and cut a hole in the bottom of the bell housing so I could loosen the bolts of the pressure plate, then take them out one at a time and put a flat washer between the flywheel and pressure plate and flywheel on every bolt. I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't had another bell housing here for it.

Not that I recommend doing any of that, but you'll probably have to pull it back out and adjust the pressure plate by the book.

I do not think I ever had an adjustable pressure plate on an 1850 tractor but I might be wrong

 

[GermantownGreen]

Hy Cap has sent out the wrong parts on an Oliver before.

Watch Chris Losey that Oliver Guy, he was in that same spot with their parts.....
On The 1650. GG Wes