Cold Blooded 9N

jds535

Member
Hello All,
I have a 1941 9n. Bought the tractor about 5 years ago and did a lot of work to it including engine work ( piston/ rings/ crank , bearings etc ). Also replaced anything that looked old or worn, like Carb, distributer, 12V alternator etc ( carb and dist were new China knockoffs ).

The Problem I have with it every year is that it does not like to start in the winter. I usually don't use it much come fall, so it sits for a month or three at least before I try to use it to plow snow. I live in RI so it does get cold here.

Every time I try to start it in the winter its the same hassle. I Crank it over using and try to use minimal choke and it doesn't fire at all. I then hold the choke tight and keep cranking and it will cough and fire and try a little and then it seems to foul the plugs and then nothing. My battery is usually getting low at this point. Hook up charger , wait an hour and start all over. So then I clean the plugs, remove the distributer and replace the points for good measure, crank crank crank,clean the plugs, charge the battery and crank some more till it fires up and cleans itself out.


I just went through this process again on the last snow we had, this time I grabbed a new plug and grounded it and checked the spark, I got good blue / white spark on the plug. So, I changed the battery and went through the routine again ( minus the points replacement ) until it fired up.
Once it starts and cleans out it runs well. All summer it starts and runs well.


I thought it might be my china replacement carburetor? What do you think?
 
" What do you think? "

I think you need to diagnose the problem before you start replacing parts.

Don't guess at it. Find out if you have a spark or fuel problem. See tip # 13. Bottom line:

Does the tractor have a spark that will jump 1/4" in open air?

Will the gas drain out of the carb bowl in a steady stream and fill a pint jar in less than 2 minutes?

These are the questions you need answered before you attempt any repairs or buy a new part. Post back with what you find.


It doesn't matter what color the spark is; it's the distance it jumps that counts.

Get a float charger. (see tip # 60)

You need a strong battery to:

1. Spin the starter

2. Engage the bendix

3. Provide voltage to the coil.

As the battery gets weaker, the first thing to fail is your spark.

In addition to charging the battery, chances are you need new cables as well (tip # 41). And, don't forget to clean all the grounds, to include the mating area between the starter & the block.

The more current you use to spin the starter, the less you have for the ignition.
75 Tips
 

Get a spark checker most auto parts stores carry them... Spark is the easiest thing to check confirm it and report back confirmed spark with a checker till then its all a guess...

While waiting for a checker pull the air tube off at the carb confirm choke is operating... I had one this year that kicked my butt for awhile the carb was flooding engine off just enoufh it was a beach to get started cold...

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1363727&highlight=choke
 
"...replaced anything that looked worn..." External 'looks' mean nothing. It is the internal parts that function and, as with all of these Ford parts, were all designed to be rebuilt over and over. I'd bet the farm all the parts you replaced are still good, and I will buy them if original and still around. Do the spark and fuel tests as Bruce outlined. For obvious safety reasons (fire hazard), do the spark test first, then the fuel flow test. The power source/battery is the first step in any electrical circuit. It must sustain a full charge under load. Start by having it tested at a starter shop or auto parts store. Simply connecting a battery charger to it does not mean it is holding a charge. Replace it if it tests bad; 12V uses a GRP 25 or GRP 35 battery. Then invest in a Battery Tender ? ? Float Charger, not a trickle charger for use when tractor sets idle for weeks on end. The thing that weakens a battery life is the constant discharging and recharging on it. Meantime while battery is being tested, go thru your wiring. Almost all non-starting issues are due to mucked up/incorrect wiring whether OEM 6V/POS GRN or 12V/NEG GRN. You say you have a 12V alternator. Is it 1-wire or 3-wire?Also a 9N means it also will have the front mount distributor. Did you do a tune-up recently? Ever? When you replaced the distributor with the new Cheena made one, did you test it before installing it? Don't trust anything 'new' to be good out of the box these days. I'd get into the distributor next with a tune-up done correctly. Regardless if OEM 6V or a 12V switch over job, the front mount circuit requires that the OEM Ballast Resistor still be used in the circuit as originally wired. Do you have it? Is your square can front mount coil 6V or 12V? If a 6V unit, then your 12V circuit needs an external 1-OHM ceramic in-line resistor added for drop down voltage. By switching to a 12V Coil, you do not need this extra resistor. I always suggest this route as I do not like any extra parts and wiring added that can get in the way and/or cause failure later. Finally, get the essential Owner/Operator/Service Manuals and correct diagrams for 12V conversions. Do you have "WIRING PICTOGRAMS BY JMOR"? Get a copy at the NTC site. Start with the basics then report back with your results.

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)
 
Verify that the ignition system is spot on.

Verify that the battery is good and fully charged.

Verify that you have properly sized battery cables (both) and that all connections are good. This means nothing smaller than 0 Ga if 6V.

Hold the clutch down when cranking and, by all means, insure that the gasoline in the tank and carburetor is winter formula gasoline.

If things are right, they will start when it's cold.

Dean
 
Hi Bruce ( and all )
So, to clarify the start of my last post. I bought the tractor as a basket case 5 years ago. I got a box full of parts and a partial tractor with a tranny full to the top with Ice. That is when I did all the work, went through everything and replaced what looked like it needed to me. Since then I have been using it for discing my small field, plowing snow etc and have not done anything to it except points/ condenser, cap / rotor.

When I did the rebuild I put on new battery cables, solenoid, converted to 12V etc. Its been running fine ever since, except for the hard starting in the winter.

So, based on your advice today ?.
I just did the spark check, it jumps a good quarter inch.
I pulled the plug on the bottom of the carb and did the fuel flow check, it filled a pint mason jar in 1:40

Today it started right up, of course its 50 degs here right now and I used my 1000 MCA boat battery.

The battery I have been using I bought new for it 5 years ago, its a Walmart everlast 525 CCA battery.
Sounds like it may be that my battery is too small as you said. ?? Or, I just need to keep a tender on it?
 
First, check the battery. See tip # 49. If you don't keep it charged, it will begin to sulphate in 30 days. If you let it sit frequently for 90 days or so w/o running it, you shouldn't expect to get much more than 5 years out of it.

If you don't have the tools to check the battery, take it to a parts store for a load check.

If you want to get 8 or more years out of a battery, buy a decent one & keep it on a float charger.
75 Tips
 
My 2n also is difficult to start when temps drop below 40. I’ve checked spark and it’s good fuel is good, brand new carb. I also replaced the original 6v starter and I put a brand new battery in about a year ago. Starts GREAT spring summer and fall... just not winter.

What I believe is my issue is that the engine has some mild to moderate blow by as evidenced by removing the oil cap while running. I haven’t done compression test yet as I don’t have a compression tester. Regardless, I’ve come to the conclusion that since the engine is 75 years old and has some blowby, that’s one of the major reasons it’s hard to start in the cold. I mean this engine had 6:1 compression when it was brand new!!! Now that it’s 75 years old and has blowby how much compression does it have left? I wont split the tractor and rebuild until I have too, too many other projects right now it’s not the priority at the moment.

What I’ve found that works AMAZINGLY, is a simple magnetic block heater. I don’t plug it in 24/7, only when there is snow in the forecast. With a simple Katz block heater it starts very well in the cold.

You can find a Katz brand magnetic block heater at TSC or your local auto parts store. They work amazingly!!!
 

take it to a parts store for a load check

Them dip sticks have no flipping idea how to load test a battery... The tractor has a built in load tester all you need is a voltmeter to compliment it...

Hit the starter record the lowest voltage reading,,, its magic I no but its a waist of time these days to take it to a parts store for a un-educated guess...




If he wants to do a self load test hook up a voltmeter hit the starter and give us the lowest voltage reading if under 9.6V he needs to confirm the battery is fully charges and repeat the test if it fails he has a dead short are a bad battery...

EZ as pie Damm....
 
mvphoto28381.jpg
 
Since you're getting all kinds of free advice, I'll offer this. The next time it is cold and you need your tractor, do this: Fill an old fashion teakettle with SCALDING hot water. Take a minute or so and pour all of it over the carburetor and lower intake manifold. Get on and with the clutch held down, give it a try. You may be surprised... and the Price Is Right. I watch Dad do this in the 50s and 60s many a time, with good success.

If you have electricity available, it might be a good hairdryer would have similar effect but maybe take a bit longer.

Good Luck
 
All good advise and tips. Here is another one, given to me by the owner of a chain saw dealer and repair in Priest River, ID. Winter gas is formulated to start easier in cold weather.
 
I have a similar problem with my 2N. High 30s and above starts. The warmer the better it starts. Was working on it one day when it didn't start and had my catalytic heater mounted on a 20lb bottle keeping me warm and pointing at the carb and manifold while I was working on it. Was on for about 1/2 hour. When done working on it I tried starting it and it started right up. I have noticed if it is cold and not warmed when it starts it almost sounds like a 2 cylinder tractor. It seems to be missing on a cylinder or two until it warms up and then tuns strong.
 
(quoted from post at 14:48:44 12/22/18) All good advise and tips. Here is another one, given to me by the owner of a chain saw dealer and repair in Priest River, ID. Winter gas is formulated to start easier in cold weather.

I'll second this one. I had a 2N with a half tank of summer gas and it was about 5 F. it would not fire even once. I did not have time to work on it right then so I put it off to the next day. The next day it was 35 F and it fired right up. Ran it around doing chores for while and then filled it up with fresh winter gas. No troubles starting the rest of the winter.
 
same problem with my 8n, posted about it a couple years back and ol Del said to point a heat lamp at the intake and let it warm up. Been doing that along with a magnetic block heater and mine never fails to start now.
 
(quoted from post at 11:25:06 12/22/18)
take it to a parts store for a load check

Them dip sticks have no flipping idea how to load test a battery... The tractor has a built in load tester all you need is a voltmeter to compliment it...

Hit the starter record the lowest voltage reading,,, its magic I no but its a waist of time these days to take it to a parts store for a un-educated guess...




If he wants to do a self load test hook up a voltmeter hit the starter and give us the lowest voltage reading if under 9.6V he needs to confirm the battery is fully charges and repeat the test if it fails he has a dead short are a bad battery...

EZ as pie Damm....

You have to be careful with testing a battery using your engine starter for the load. Starters and engines can go bad and draw more amperage than they should, when they do this (maybe drawing as much as 400 or more amps ) you will think you have a bad battery.

To properly load test a battery you need to control a set amount of amperage draw (load) and then watch the voltage drop.

Testing starter amperage draw is always a good thing when troubleshooting cranking problems, it's not always the battery.
 

You have to remember most of these guys are lost when it comes to voltage and load testing... At least this will give them a direction to go other than be lost and depend on a unskilled parts store workers guess...

It normal here to fudge with taking it apart till you get lucky none have any real logic... Normal logic is fudge with it till you get lucky...

Back to your bad starter are locked up engine all starts start off as a dead short if it pulls 400 amps constantly sum'N is gonna smoke and get hotter than 4-T-ell. A good sign of a good battery is it will rebound back to normal static voltage in a few minuets are at lest be with end a couple ten's...

A bad engine are starter would be the least common items even then voltage test will lead you there... HF has a 500 amp load tester for $50 maybe one day they will offer a voltmeter with a high amp clamp for $50 and if we get lucky a $50 scope...

You know why folks don't ask for the voltage and send post like this on a wild goose chase 'THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE VOLTAGE SHOULD BE" all they know is to fiddle fart around it...
 
Yesterday's Tractor Forums

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top