Commercial fertilizer questions

[morgan in ar]

I have been baling hay on this field for at least 15 years. I don't own it, just been baling it on a "keep it mowed" basis. I have never fertilizer it, because the previous owners didn't want it fertilized. The field has changed owners, and the new owner is receptive to me fertilizing it, and continuing with the "hay it to keep it mowed" deal.

Here's the problem: The field is burned out. Soil test shows very low K at 50 ppm. Recommendations are:160 lb/ac N
270 lb/ac K20
5000 lb/ac lime.
P is above optimal.
Field is about 50 acres.

Urea is 46-0-0 and 345.36/ ton at Baxter Springs, KS co-op. (This is the closest place that posts prices online)

160 lb/ac x 50 ac = 8000 lbs.
2000 lbs x .46 = 920 lbs N/ton
8000lbs/920 = 8.69 tons
8.69 tons x $345.36 = $3003.13

Likewise, potash is 0-0-60
270 lb/ac x 50 ac = 13,500 lbs
13500 x .60 = 1200 lb K/ton
13500/1200= 11.25 tons
11.25 ton x 314.43 = $3537.33

Check my equations, please. It's been a long time since ag and math classes. This won't fit into my budget for one year, especially with beef prices like they are. Would it be better to do the whole field halfway, or half of the field all the way?
Or just do K, and N next year, or vice versa?

 

[jm.]

My vote is do the entire 50 acres with half the required amount this year the do it again when you can afford it. Some chance that putting the whole on your half the field would have some waste where going the other way at least all the field will benefit to some degree. most folks around here fertilize and lime the hay ground twice a year , spring and fall.

 

[flying belgian]

I'm voting for as much as you can afford spread across entire field.

 

[4520BW]

I would add some Pell lime to the mix,ag lime will take a year or two for it to become effective.

 

[JOCCO]

Much different thoughts here as I have done this. 1. if your going to put money into it get a lease for say 3 years. 2. If it is "run out" as we call it and just weeds you may be in to re seeding it. 3. Do the soil tests and go by the recommendations for your area NO I DID NOT READ THEM. IF YOUR JUST DOING A QUICK FIX most areas have a custom ball park like 1/2 ton lime per acre and 2-300 lbs 10 10 10 fertilizer. You get the idea.

 

[RGMartin]

I would do the lime, then as much potash as I could afford.

160# of N seems way to heavy.

 

[john in la]

For that kind of money I would need more than a hand shake offer of hay it to keep it cut.

 

[tomNE]

I also have lots of opinions! putting on a percentage seems to be the best bang for the buck, maybe even as low as 25% of recommended! if organic matter is above 3 on soil test, i'd forget the lime! if the yearly cost of fertilizer improves the yield enuff to pay for fertilizer, i see u as no worse off then if u don't fertilize.

 

[Olyj1947]

This comes from a guy who spent 37 years as an agronomist and Baxter Springs is more than 25 miles away so that makes me an expert! 1) Get a 3 year minimum lease. 2) Use pell lime- 94% release the first year 250 pounds per acre. 3) Is it alfalfa? Use very little N and use all the K you can afford. Is it grass hay? Spend your money on N and forget the K, 4) if you get mid spring rain, spread what ever you choose after the first cutting right after clearing the field. 5) Dry area? put it on as early as you can get into the field. K moves slowly through the soil profile and needs water to get it close to the roots. 6) And remember rain makes it all work! Good luck.

 

[showcrop]

Morgan, first I would get a commitment from the new owner that you will have it for at least three years. In my thirty years I never put lime on at more than 2 t/acre. it takes it two years to get into the soil to the roots. With your conditions there is no point at all in putting N on without bringing pH up. The acidity will keep the plants from being able to take the N up. Top dressing N at over 50lbs /acre can burn the plant and in addition if it doesn't rain you can lose half of it to vaporization. Potash also moves through the soil very slowly. It won't go to work for you until the following year. In summary, provided that you can get a firm enough agreement which will extend by a year each year, and that you have crop still intact which will respond to the fertilizer, I would apply the ammendments at 25-35% of the recommended totals per year, over the whole field.

 

[showcrop]

Morgan, first I would get a commitment from the new owner that you will have it for at least three years. In my thirty years I never put lime on at more than 2 t/acre. it takes it two years to get into the soil to the roots. With your conditions there is no point at all in putting N on without bringing pH up. The acidity will keep the plants from being able to take the N up. Top dressing N at over 50lbs /acre can burn the plant and in addition if it doesn't rain you can lose half of it to vaporization. Potash also moves through the soil very slowly. It won't go to work for you until the following year. In summary, provided that you can get a firm enough agreement which will extend by a year each year, and that you have crop still intact which will respond to the fertilizer, I would apply the ammendments at 25-35% of the recommended totals per year, over the whole field.

 

[ss55]

Nitrogen is water soluble and can move down into root zone (and beyond) if it is applied near the surface. Will P, K and lime also move in soil or do they need to be incorporated to mix them into the root zone?

Can hay ground be rejuvenated without one or more years of other crops in the crop rotation, I.E. corn the first year, then oats the second year as a cover crop for hay (alfalfa & brome grass mix) in the third year?

 

[Harold Hubbard]

If it is available in your area,wood ash gives the best bang for the buck. It is a waste product from wood burning power plants, and we get it for little more than the trucking. It can be spread with a good side slinger type manure spreader. We tried spreading with a fertilizer/ lime buggy, but unless you go to the trouble of screening it, there are too many big lumps to work well.

One ton is equal to about half a ton of lime, and also has 40 to 80 pounds of potash. Little bit of N, and some trace minerals.

I put it on at three ton to the acre, it shows results in the first year.

 

[morgan in ar]

Thanks for all the replies. More information: it's a mix of warm and cool season grasses.

 

[tomstractorsandtoys]

15 years without reseeding means you mostly have grass left. I would look into pell lime as it is available the first year and add 100-150 lbs urea and 100 lbs potash per acre. Do this every year and if you get rain you will see a big improvement in yeilds. Tom

 

[newhollandnut]

Definitely get some kind of an agreement but for trying to pinch penny?s but work towards the right thing I would go half the suggested amount of potash with about 100lbs/ac this spring then if you still had a little money late summer or early fall maybe try to put 2-2.5 ton of lime on. I custom cut and baled for a guy and his field was getting very rough and didn?t have much extra money but every time he would have some extra he?d have a load of lime delivered throughout the year and stock piled. Once he had enough we?d take the backhoe over and load the spreader for him. Worked out really good and starting to get the ground built up and not be out a lot of money at once. In the spring he would put on all the 19-19-19 he could afford with his tax refund

 

[Richard G.]

As a graduate of Clemson Agronomy, it was really stressed to us to bring the ph up first to make the other nutrients more available. Very important.
And make sure you get a several year lease on it.
A friend cleaned up an uncles farm several years ago and planted alfalfa and fertilized it and made the place really look good. Then the uncle ran him off the place.
Richard in NW SC

 

[The Famous Grouse]

(quoted from post at 08:53:37 02/16/19) As a graduate of Clemson Agronomy, it was really stressed to us to bring the ph up first to make the other nutrients more available. Very important.
And make sure you get a several year lease on it.
A friend cleaned up an uncles farm several years ago and planted alfalfa and fertilized it and made the place really look good. Then the uncle ran him off the place.
Richard in NW SC

This^^^^.

As soon as you add value to something, people are suddenly going to thing you're screwing them because they see the value of the finished product and discount all the work you put in to get it there. So suddenly it gets pulled out from under you.

I've seen it happen so many times. People are so damn cheap that they'll leave a piece of equipment rusting in the woods, but go in and offer them scrap value for it and suddenly they think it's a diamond in a goat's @ss and they want even more.

There's a old biddy that inherited her father's run down old farmhouse just down the road from me. She's surrounded by a shelter belt full of rusting old cars and other busted machinery. She's living off of social security and not much more because her old man was a pretty useless farmer.

The one neighbor that she kind of gets along with said to her that he was having the scrap guy come out to his place and pick up some old cars. This is back when scrap metal prices were through the roof. Asked biddy if she wanted to have him come out and give her an offer for all the "fine merchandise" that had been sitting in her shelter belt for 40+++ years.

So scrap guy comes out and gives her an offer of $5000 cash. Yeah. She had that much crap. Would have taken him days worth of hauling.

She calls him a son of a b!tch for trying to take advantage of her and runs him off. So all that rusting crap sits in the woods and she's still on food stamps.

Give something value and then suddenly some people think it's worth double. Get a lease or sure as heck you'll get run off that hay ground because the owner will suddenly think you're screwing him.

Grouse

 

[stonerock]

PH has to be right or fert chem or seed wont work to there fullest potential, then you said 15 yrs no new reseed, you don't have a hay field you got a weed patch. till, bring PH up plant to corn then to wheat then to your grass of choice then you will have a hay field

 

[Traditional Farmer]

Way back when the antique tractor thing was just getting going a friend of mine looked at a non running MM U old lay said she wanted $500 for it.So my my friend asks her if it'd be OK to stick a battery in it and see if he could it running.Well after about a half a day he gets it to fire up goes to pay the woman the $500,she says Nope its a runner now I want
a $1000.(LOL)