Couple electrical fails

[Doug-Iowa]

Usually find an electrical failure every few months worth a picture for a future safety class. But scored two in one day on Friday.

Had the utility giving me the run around on voltage sags at my son's place. Service had been upgraded to 200A by the previous owner, but the utility never upgraded the service line. When we complained they wanted $1600 to fix it. I said it says right in your manual (and your tariff you file with the state) that the customers' responsibility is at the pole attachment point. From there back to the transformer is all you. Finally sent a lineman out and replaced the overhead service, here's a picture of one of the splices. Yep, that was the problem all right. Plus the wire size was about three sizes too small.

So that afternoon I'm gutting an old house I bought for remodel. Pulling paneling off in the basement and found this nail right thru the romex.

All the wiring in the house is in bad shape. The elderly lady that lived there always had a soft spot for struggling nephews and grandsons so anytime they needed money she had some repairs to do. Surprised it hadn't burnt down. Plumbing just as bad. Which is probably a good thing, no temptation to leave anything behind just replace it all.

 

[K Effective]

I found a wire staple like the second picture back at my first house. It was through the wire to the well pump- 220V. When I went to pull it, it failed the line catastrophically (yes, I pulled a staple hot).

 

[TJ in KY]

I could not figure out some wiring at our condo in Florida. Used a wire tracer and found this buried behind the drywall. No box no wire nuts just electric taped and buried and drywall.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 20:35:27 08/08/21) Usually find an electrical failure every few months worth a picture for a future safety class. But scored two in one day on Friday.

Had the utility giving me the run around on voltage sags at my son's place. Service had been upgraded to 200A by the previous owner, but the utility never upgraded the service line. When we complained they wanted $1600 to fix it. I said it says right in your manual (and your tariff you file with the state) that the customers' responsibility is at the pole attachment point. From there back to the transformer is all you. Finally sent a lineman out and replaced the overhead service, here's a picture of one of the splices. Yep, that was the problem all right. Plus the wire size was about three sizes too small.


<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto96879.jpg>
So that afternoon I'm gutting an old house I bought for remodel. Pulling paneling off in the basement and found this nail right thru the romex.
<img src=https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto96880.jpg>
All the wiring in the house is in bad shape. The elderly lady that lived there always had a soft spot for struggling nephews and grandsons so anytime they needed money she had some repairs to do. Surprised it hadn't burnt down. Plumbing just as bad. Which is probably a good thing, no temptation to leave anything behind just replace it all.

eard of a drywall screw in same spot as that nail years ago & tripping circuit breaker. Guy said he removed screw & no more tripping .

 

[Bob - MI]

At one time you could count on the power companies to be the leaders in doing things correctly. Today it's not like that at all and you have to fight and threaten them with some form of legal action.

Our local power company stopped trimming tree limbs and we lost phasing so often at our plant that we spent $30,000 replacing motors in the building. Their version was that their forestry dept said there was no need to do any trimming in spite of the fact that every time there was an issue they stated it to be because of trees. Their recommendation to us was to buy a generator.

We ended up getting the city manager and our State Representative involved and viola the trimming began. No outages since that time and we did end up buying a backup generator.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

When I had a 200a load center upgrade I asked Duke service man why I need 4 0 wire going to load center and your wire is 3x smaller.

Answer, because we can.

 

[Bret4207]

I used to hold linemen up there at the right hand of God. Then I got to know a few linemen... :roll:

 

[DoubleO7]

So on that splice, the wires in and out look to be same sizes.
One wire looks to have smoked pretty good, the other not as much.
So i the end to end splicing what was done wrong?

Down here they splice the meter feed to the xform feed with the wires side by side. Then barrel crimped and then a shrink wrap cap over it all. Leaving the spliced ends pointing upwards.

 

[Bret4207]

I bought this place in '95. I'd been here 3 or 4 years when I noticed some heavy cable behind a cabinet. I thought it was a loose piece. Nope, it was a 220v line, probably for power to a silo unloader. It was cut behind the cabinet..........and yeah, it was LIVE!

The ceiling light in one of the kids rooms stopped working. Long story/short, I finally pulled the fixture apart- 2 bare wires twisted together in one corner, 2 in another and the ground somehow amazingly not arcing between one or the other! No tape, no wire nuts, no nothing...in a metal box! The guy we bought the place from bragged on gutting the place and redoing all the electrical!!!

 

[DoubleO7]

(quoted from post at 11:05:05 08/09/21) When I had a 200a load center upgrade I asked Duke service man why I need 4 0 wire going to load center and your wire is 3x smaller.

Answer, because we can.

Same as I&M power company.
If they decided you would never pull 200a, they could supply less if they wanted to.

 

[miangus]

Fairly common to not up grade the drop when panel is upgraded. A lot of. People will need upgraded services with proposed electrification.

 

[Doug - Iowa]

For its original purpose, I don't think the spicing was done wrong. This was a splice hanging out in the middle of the service line. I believe what is going on here is the service line was originally sized for an old 60 amp range and main fuse box that would have been very common in this area for a house of this age (early 1900's). The conductors are #4 AL at best which in free air is rated for maybe 80 amps, which should be derated when your run length is about 200' like this one was. Later, by upgrading the service panel without increasing the service line allows the customer to over load it. Whoever did the panel upgrade didn't talk to the utility. Or if they did they didnt argue the cost of the upgrade and the utility didn't care.

Why it is more evident in the picture than anywhere else in the line is because the spice is failing, it is the weakest (less conductive) point on an already overloaded circuit. Every time you splice a wire you run the risk of the splice becoming a point of resistance. Especially outside or underground. Moisture has infiltrated the joint and the oxide jacks the crimp open, reducing the conductivity a small amount. It gets warm under load, expands, more water gets in, more oxide forms, jacks open further, etc. until the splice starts to be a serous hot spot. That melts the tape off and starts melting the jacket on both sides of the splice. Why one splice and not the other, one was just a bit weaker than the other and failed first.

I still use Blackburn crimp-on splices sometimes, but when my inventory of crimps is gone I'll switch to bolt thru type. I see the utilities have moved to bolt thru's, probably so they can get a tighter and more consistent squeeze on the conductor. I used them for the 4/0 wire on this service, they are expensive but work great. No special crimp tool needed, just tighten with a 1/4 impact gun. Plus you can unbolt and reuse them if you screw up. No more tape, a plastic housing that covers the bolted connection. And plenty of no-ox grease already inside to control corrosion.