deatailed how the generator and voltage regulator functi

[modifyman]

I am pretty good at trouble shooting stuff...regardless what it may be.
This analytical thinking is of course a double edged sword.
But later in years now, I have a brain overloaded with data...what I remember, at least...

So it bothers me when I can't figure out why I can't get "this" tractor to charge.

This being, a later model John Deere. (I think 62...that's when I showed up)
1010 R...gasoline...pretty sure we are the second owner. First one was mowing his lawn one day and the post man found him later sitting there keeled over...What a way to end this chapter in ones life.

Saw it for sale in his brothers front yard and we needed a bigger tractor.
A Kubota L1500 only can do so much.

And yes, it being as old as I am, constant maintenance and repairs is expected.

I like the older stuff because it was built so it could be repaired...not thrown away.

So, this charging episode, or lack of, has me boggled.

I have gone through the generator. Cleaning it, (badly needed) removed as much rust as possible. Redid and checked connections for continuity...where there should be and not be...have plenty of brush life left...in fact, I think they were not used much after last replacement...reassembled and I just don't get a substantial voltage reading.

I have polarized it.
Went through the regulator and the smaller relay/solenoid points were not making contact. Cleaned both sets....still nothing.

I suppose there could be an internal short on/in one of the fields.

Other than that what would cause the thing not to generate a current at high RPMs?

I have tried to find an indepth explanation how the regulator works or how this type of generator functions. No magnets so it uses electromagnets...? and that is where I am unsure as to how the constant commutator switching with brush contacts affecting the field/s...and maybe I should go check for AC? (Just thought of that)

Any one have any thoughts on this?
Being how there are no diodes I am not sure how the DC current is developed. I know I am missing, or have forgotten, (more common lately) something/s.

 

[used red MN]

Hello modifyman welcome to YT! This explanation will be garble to you at this point but this forum currently has 2 viewing platforms Classic and Modern I am going to link a document that I think should explain this very clearly. The mention of the viewing platforms has to do with whether this gets blocked or not because it is from another tractor forum. It is an International Harvester publication but since your JD uses a Delco electrical system as does IH it should all apply. A lot of the info is just basic electrical knowledge so it can be applied broadly to many things. The second thing I will link is a quite comprehensive generator system troubleshooting guide put together by another posting member here. Answering one of your final questions, yes using electromagnetism is essentially how the generator system works.
https://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www...s/GSS-1310 Electrical/GSS-1310 Electrical.htm

And JohnTs generator charging system troubleshooting guide
https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=2060825

Edit to add: If by some weird chance you are viewing this in Classic View you will have to click the ..Modern View.. button in the upper right of the post view box to get the link to the IH publication.

This post was edited by used red MN on 10/22/2023 at 10:24 am.

 

[wore out]

You said you have polarized it.

Since you have an ''A circuit generator, now ground the ''F'' (field terminal) on the generator to ''full field'' the generator and see if it charges, check the voltage at the ''A'' terminal on the generator (this takes the VR out of the picture).

https://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Blue%20Ribbon%20Service%20Manuals/GSS-1310%20Electrical/GSS-1310%20Electrical.htm

https://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www...s/GSS-1310 Electrical/GSS-1310 Electrical.htm

Check out the manual linked above, even though it is an IH manual they also used Delco ''A circuit'' generators.

You may have to copy the link and paste it into your browser to get it to work.

 

[used red MN]

Way to go woreout! I guess double the information is
better than none at all!

 

[Jim.ME]

Welcome to the forums.

To go along with what others have given you here is one document on DR generator regulators. More are available with a web search for Delco Remy Generator voltage regulators.

http://ruiter.ca/mc/info/PDFs/1R-116.pdf

If you haven't seen this one, here is a site with a good bit of vintage Delco Remy info.

http://www.delcoremyhistory.com/trainingmanuals.htm

 

[modifyman]

...and the saga goes on.

Okay...
Came back in to check again the procedure for hot wiring the generator...Starting to think maybe the VR but first, hotwire.
Read the replies and this is all good stuff, but this is what happened outside...

So I went out to work on the tractor with just the goal to get it running for my brother to do some brush hogging.

I did leave out the fact that I had just replaced the rod bearings with the hope to remove a knock...and that worked!

The distributor is driven by the oil pump so that was removed because...well, since I had the oil pan off already, decided to clean up the oil pump...it needed it.

After reassembly and the distributor set correctly with the oil pump with the help of a long flathead screwdriver, (got it on the second try) had to time it all.

After cleaning the flywheel, ( no harmonic balancer) I did find two marks. DC and 26.
The book instructs for an initial timing point to align the 26 and rotate the distributor until points just open. Easy enough with a continuity, (beeeep) meter.

Had to purchase a new timing light because my Penske did not make it here. (Moved to Missouri, 5-22, to escape CommyFornia)
The cable made it, but not the light.
And yes I found a Craftsman with no cord for $20, free shipping, on ebay. It was intermittent and after removing the cover discovered the switch was dirty. Good electronic cleaner helped but not fully. Took it apart and not the first time I disassembled this type of switch/trigger but I lost control and....got it together using coiled springs to hold the 2 wires and....still intermittent...not the trigger.
Decided to modify it...that is what I do...and turn it into an LED timing light. Had/have the all the parts but Couldn't get the MOSFET to trigger from the induction clamp....AHHHH!

Bought a new one at O'reilly Auto Parts. A digital with tachometer and a zero return feature. This should help since I only have two marks for timing and 26 is not one of the advance timing marks the book calls for regardless what RPMs. Thought I figured it out but the tractor kind of/seemed to/diesel when shutting it off.

So, When I went outside earlier I first adjusted the carb, (newly rebuilt by a competent John Deere associate) and got it down to 600 RPMs. Hooked up the the timing light cord and realized/remembered I didn't mount that VR last night...it was late...came in at 2:00AM because I was getting creeped out where the tractor was...behind the barn...next to the woods...started hearing something lurking in the shadows and it wasn't a cow. They typically come over and want to see what I'm doing out so late.

I need to stop watching these YouTube videos about cryptids and paranormal stuff.

So, after mounting the VR I started the tractor and took a measurement at the generator. 12volts plus across the A & M posts at 600 RPMs.
14volts plus across the A & ground at 1800 RPMs

Ahhh! That surge of dopamine and loss of anxiety felt great.

Proceeded to time the tractor. (I reset the distributor last night to 26 at points break)
So, the timing light, set advance to 26 and I can see the 26 mark...pressed the return to zero button which should had timed onto the DC mark did not do so. No marks. Searched for the DC mark using the advance buttons and at 25 I can see the 26 mark.
Continued searching and found the DC mark at 50.

After about 10 minutes and shutting down the the engine and starting back up hoping to reset the timing light, I had enough.

It sounded okay and just for good measure I decided to check at the battery what I was getting for a voltage...12 volts plus at 1800 RPMs.
Checked at the generator...2.3volts...

What happened? Connections are good but I have not yet done everything under the main/control panel. Just the ignition switch and the light switch.

I need a nap.

 

[gene bender]

easy way to check with engine running ground the field and if that makes it
charge the reg is bad if it dont make chasrge the gen is bad check all grounds
put one lead of the OHM meter on batt ground and other probe to all componets
this will check the ground to all componets

 

[John T]

Ive posted this link to my own Troubleshooting Procedure for years, it pertains to
Class A Charging Systems. If thats what you have, following its step by step tests
can help determine the cause of non charging. It has steps to determine if non
charging is a VR or a Generator problem, easy peasey give it a try.


https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=2060825

John T
John Ts Charging Troubleshooting

 

[modifyman]

So, I didn't get a chance to get back to the tractor. But other than it not charging...it seems to be running good. (No Knocking) We fell behind at keeping weeds and such at bay. About a hundred acres of pasture and 50 of trees/woods...and the rocks. So it is nice to have a large tractor again...it was down for a while due to other factors I may expose some day. Another post.

I'm going to put it back in its "tent" for a couple days since it is suppose to rain for a few days starting tonight. Better work environment at night. Not so creepy.

Thank you all for your input and I will keep this updated.

...after I realized the tractor had stopped charging, I wondered for a moment if the induction clamp on the timing light could had messed with the generator's polarization...it clamps on right there literally touching the casing....Nahhh...it's just receiving a current.

 

[modifyman]

"used red MN" mentioned... "A lot of the info is just basic electrical knowledge so it can be applied broadly to many things."

Much of that literature is basic electricity. But, the section, (Charging Circuit) on how the generator and regulator function together...WoW!
I kept getting lost when reading, "The field series windings on the regulator might be considered an accelerator coil in that it causes the points to vibrate more rapidly...when...points...closed...windings aid...open...collapse...zzzz

...whAT!

Okay. Pass on the theory, just Johns trouble shooting. I can follow his style of instructions. Passionately punctuated for the readers benefit.

...and now I have both the regulator and generator opened up again just to check my previous work. Which looks and checks okay.
I should had printed out his instructions. I didn't have the tractor grounded when doing the motor test. (need more sleep)
I did get something out that book. The ability to set the cut-in just above idle. Or, that it needs to be to prevent burning/pitting of the points on the regulator.
And that I have a combined voltage and current regulator.
Also, that engines don't idle at uniform speeds.
J-uhh!
Here, for years I had thought there was an issue that I just couldn't figure out...and yeah I noticed it from other engines. I just never concluded engines at idle are prone to run UN-uniformely. But not newer vehicles...?

That "Charging Circuit" section really stretched my neurons.

This post was edited by modifyman on 10/28/2023 at 01:50 pm.

 

[modifyman]

Okay.
Reassembled the generator and it passed the motor test.
Wired up the regulator, with a ground, and started the tractor.
Generator is functioning...16 volts at around1600 RPMs.
But the regulator is not ...points/armatures aren't moving on either coil/field.

Since the points are worn down this would be a good time to replace the regulator.

 

[modifyman]

Okay...
Had to order a new regulator and finally got it yesterday...new crimp connectors...installed the regulator...hooked up the battery...choke...ignition and vroom!

Generator light...still illuminates at 1000 RPMs. 12 volts at the battery and 4 volts at the generator. :shock:

Just walk away...
Anybody figure it out?
Yup! Did not polarize the generator. I need to put a sticker on the battery instructing this procedure.

I thank you all for your input. And one of these days that information in the book will :idea: in my head...strange how the gears want to subconsciously keep turning until the question has been resolved...probably be while I'm laying in a ditch, about to die, and suddenly, all the answers and solutions to life's problems flood my mind. And that is how it all ends.

 

[modifyman]

:?
A bit off topic but, I noticed the title didn't spell correctly or was limited by number of characters. Is there a way to edit this?
Or do I need...should I start a new topic?
[b:e3d69b2f67]"How to Edit, Correct or Change Topic Description"[/b:e3d69b2f67]

 

[Jim.ME]

There is a character limit on titles. I do not think editing a title is an option. Further down the index page is a forum titled Site Comments. You can post a message there for YT Support to get answers to such questions if you want.