Deed and title theft issues any of you aware of it

[Tony in SD]

First of all, I never buy or sell properly without a real estate attorney representing me. Secondly, I personally know all the people who work at all the abstract companies in the county as well as the Register of Deeds. Third, in SD before a sale is recorded, the seller is sent a letter from the county and the seller has to confirm to the county that the parcel was actually sold.

 

[JOCCO]

First of all, I never buy or sell properly without a real estate attorney representing me. Secondly, I personally know all the people who work at all the abstract companies in the county as well as the Register of Deeds. Third, in SD before a sale is recorded, the seller is sent a letter from the county and the seller has to confirm to the county that the parcel was actually sold.

That letter idea is a good idea. I think something like that needs to be done to resolve this. As in contacted or confirmed by the county not the crooks. Also one idea was to mandate the use of an attorney.

 

[Ericp351]

Who, save teenybopper jail bait, puts their travel plans and photos (et cetera) on "Facebook"??

 

[JWA]

Who, save teenybopper jail bait, puts their travel plans and photos (et cetera) on "Facebook"??

Have you been on Facebook lately? It seems like some folks on there post every time they take a leak.

 

[jimg.allentown]

Somehow, these stolen deed, stolen property stories just don't make sense to me. Having been through more than a couple of closings (or settlements as some call them), it just isn't that easy - at least here in PA. Every closing I have been to involved literally bushels of paperwork, and was not just a simple matter of filing a deed with the county.
I would think that unless a deed is filed by a title company or a realtor, it would raise red flags.
Even when we bought this house, we paid cash from the sale of two other homes, and there were still several people at the table. This was all before any filings took place. Lienholders had to be satisfied, tax and utility people had to be satisfied, and finally, title insurance people had to be satisfied. After all of that, now the man on the radio comes on and says how easy it is to steal your house with a fake deed, and I should buy his product to prevent that. Makes me wonder.

What I DO know is that transferring a deed REQUIRES a transfer tax to be paid to the county/state, and that is not an insignificant amount of money. I believe in my county it is 1% of the sale price. That amounted to several thousand dollars. How many scammers would invest a few thousand to "steal" a property that is certain at some point to get "unwound" and returned to the rightful owner?

The whole thing sounds like it is:
1) not as easy as has been told
2) potentially expensive for the scammer
3) not as difficult to "unwind" as we are told.

As told, it makes no sense to me.

 

[JWA]

Somehow, these stolen deed, stolen property stories just don't make sense to me. Having been through more than a couple of closings (or settlements as some call them), it just isn't that easy - at least here in PA. Every closing I have been to involved literally bushels of paperwork, and was not just a simple matter of filing a deed with the county.
I would think that unless a deed is filed by a title company or a realtor, it would raise red flags.
Even when we bought this house, we paid cash from the sale of two other homes, and there were still several people at the table. This was all before any filings took place. Lienholders had to be satisfied, tax and utility people had to be satisfied, and finally, title insurance people had to be satisfied. After all of that, now the man on the radio comes on and says how easy it is to steal your house with a fake deed, and I should buy his product to prevent that. Makes me wonder.

What I DO know is that transferring a deed REQUIRES a transfer tax to be paid to the county/state, and that is not an insignificant amount of money. I believe in my county it is 1% of the sale price. That amounted to several thousand dollars. How many scammers would invest a few thousand to "steal" a property that is certain at some point to get "unwound" and returned to the rightful owner?

The whole thing sounds like it is:
1) not as easy as has been told
2) potentially expensive for the scammer
3) not as difficult to "unwind" as we are told.

As told, it makes no sense to me.

Does anyone personally know someone who has had their property stolen through this process?

 

[NoDakInMN]

Somehow, these stolen deed, stolen property stories just don't make sense to me. Having been through more than a couple of closings (or settlements as some call them), it just isn't that easy - at least here in PA. Every closing I have been to involved literally bushels of paperwork, and was not just a simple matter of filing a deed with the county.
I would think that unless a deed is filed by a title company or a realtor, it would raise red flags.
Even when we bought this house, we paid cash from the sale of two other homes, and there were still several people at the table. This was all before any filings took place. Lienholders had to be satisfied, tax and utility people had to be satisfied, and finally, title insurance people had to be satisfied. After all of that, now the man on the radio comes on and says how easy it is to steal your house with a fake deed, and I should buy his product to prevent that. Makes me wonder.

What I DO know is that transferring a deed REQUIRES a transfer tax to be paid to the county/state, and that is not an insignificant amount of money. I believe in my county it is 1% of the sale price. That amounted to several thousand dollars. How many scammers would invest a few thousand to "steal" a property that is certain at some point to get "unwound" and returned to the rightful owner?

The whole thing sounds like it is:
1) not as easy as has been told
2) potentially expensive for the scammer
3) not as difficult to "unwind" as we are told.

As told, it makes no sense to me.

I think the scam is in those selling protection against this. Deed changes do need to be recorded and there are usually fees or taxes involved. Mortgages taken against property require a host of legal steps that need to be taken that also cost money such as appraisals, health inspections and so on. You do not simply file a paper with the county recorder and then go get some money.

 

[Mike(NEOhio)]

The county auditor's website here has a selection to put your properties on a service that will notify you if someone files on your property. It's an outside service they provide at no cost. Need to file separately for each property.

 

[DoubleO7]

How many scammers would invest a few thousand to "steal" a property that is certain at some point to get "unwound" and returned to the rightful owner?

Some of these scammers are willing and able to spend the tax to get the property recorded by what many consider an "authority" i.e. County Clerks office. Then they resell quick and are long gone before the prior owner and/or new owner discovers problems.

Also,
Many properties are sold by owner and bought without any middle men sucking profits off.

 

[Butch(OH)]

Somehow, these stolen deed, stolen property stories just don't make sense to me. Having been through more than a couple of closings (or settlements as some call them), it just isn't that easy - at least here in PA. Every closing I have been to involved literally bushels of paperwork, and was not just a simple matter of filing a deed with the county.
I would think that unless a deed is filed by a title company or a realtor, it would raise red flags.
Even when we bought this house, we paid cash from the sale of two other homes, and there were still several people at the table. This was all before any filings took place. Lienholders had to be satisfied, tax and utility people had to be satisfied, and finally, title insurance people had to be satisfied. After all of that, now the man on the radio comes on and says how easy it is to steal your house with a fake deed, and I should buy his product to prevent that. Makes me wonder.

What I DO know is that transferring a deed REQUIRES a transfer tax to be paid to the county/state, and that is not an insignificant amount of money. I believe in my county it is 1% of the sale price. That amounted to several thousand dollars. How many scammers would invest a few thousand to "steal" a property that is certain at some point to get "unwound" and returned to the rightful owner?

The whole thing sounds like it is:
1) not as easy as has been told
2) potentially expensive for the scammer
3) not as difficult to "unwind" as we are told.

As told, it makes no sense to me.

My thoughts exactly. If it was that easy the entire realestate empire would be in total turmoil

 

[jimg.allentown]

Some of these scammers are willing and able to spend the tax to get the property recorded by what many consider an "authority" i.e. County Clerks office. Then they resell quick and are long gone before the prior owner and/or new owner discovers problems.

Also,
Many properties are sold by owner and bought without any middle men sucking profits off.

How does that quick sell thing work - of which you speak??
Unless the market is really hot, there is no such thing as a quick sale. Properties generally stay on the market anywhere from a couple of weeks to years. I've seen examples of each.
Next comes the need for a CASH buyer in the case of a quick sale. If a bank or mortgage company is involved, there will be issues with appraisal, title search, and payment of several taxes. None of this is simple, quick, or easy. Cash buyers are generally few and far between. VERY FEW people have the means or available funds to do a cash sale.

 

[DoubleO7]

CASH buyer

You answered how in your own post.

Believe it or not there are people that only buy with cash only.

Not every property is over $100k or $20k etc.

 

[John T]

YES scammers and squatters may get moved into a property and it can be difficult, time consuming and EXPENSIVE to get them out plus they can trash and damage the property and its near impossible to recover damages from such likely judgment proof people grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Recording statutes, Recorders and Auditors Offices, title insurance and laws vary in different states and Im more familiar with Indiana's where I currently practice law.

FREE PROFESSIONAL ADVICE don't waste time, keep detailed records, keep all documentation, keep dated photographs diary and history
HAVE RECORDS AND DOCUMENTS INCLUDING YOUR DEED AND ANY MORTGAGES OR LEASES ETC HANDY TO SHOW PROOF OF OWENERSHIP

Finally consider consulting a local real estate attorney in addition to what's offered here by lay persons or professionals, myself certainly included

Best wishes everyone take care USE CAUTION self help laws aren't favored in many jurisdictions, consult local officials and attorneys

John T BSEE,JD Attorney at Law

 

[John T]

YES scammers and squatters may get moved into a property and it can be difficult, time consuming and EXPENSIVE to get them out plus they can trash and damage the property and its near impossible to recover damages from such likely judgment proof people grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Recording statutes, Recorders and Auditors Offices, title insurance and laws vary in different states and Im more familiar with Indiana's where I currently practice law.

FREE PROFESSIONAL ADVICE don't waste time, keep detailed records, keep all documentation, keep dated photographs diary and history
HAVE RECORDS AND DOCUMENTS INCLUDING YOUR DEED AND ANY MORTGAGES OR LEASES ETC HANDY TO SHOW PROOF OF OWENERSHIP

Finally consider consulting a local real estate attorney in addition to what's offered here by lay persons or professionals, myself certainly included

Best wishes everyone take care USE CAUTION self help laws aren't favored in many jurisdictions, consult local officials and attorneys

John T BSEE,JD Attorney at Law

PS. If you don’t have important real estate documents at hand most can be obtained at the local county recorders office. Get them normal or certified and keep in a safe place where you can get to them if needed. Some institutions consider utility bills in your name at your address as good evidence. My professional advice is to gather up all such evidence if you don’t already have it !!!

Take care be diligent out there better safe than sorry later

Y’all have a good one now take care

John T. Attorney at Law

 

[John T]

PS 2. FYI. One other thing to note is so long as it’s strictly a CIVIL offense cops are reluctant to help or may lack authority to do so. However if it becomes a law making it Criminal they can more likely provide help, such laws are under consideration. Soft on crime or no cash bail policies isn’t good for many law abiding citizens. Hopefully this issue will be addressed and soon snd in the meantime take steps to protect your homes.

Indeed Title Insurance is about covering you were conveyed clean clear title but NOT about protecting it thereafter. Those companies collect premiums but pay few claims because if there’s any doubt whatsoever those are excluded in policy exemptions which many realtors aren’t even familiar with.


Thanks to Jocco for starting an informative thread, best wishes to all here

John T

 

[jimg.allentown]

You answered how in your own post.

Believe it or not there are people that only buy with cash only.

Not every property is over $100k or $20k etc.

That does not make for a quick sale.

 

[DoubleO7]

That does not make for a quick sale.

Okay, LOL.

 

[JOCCO]

PS 2. FYI. One other thing to note is so long as it’s strictly a CIVIL offense cops are reluctant to help or may lack authority to do so. However if it becomes a law making it Criminal they can more likely provide help, such laws are under consideration. Soft on crime or no cash bail policies isn’t good for many law abiding citizens. Hopefully this issue will be addressed and soon snd in the meantime take steps to protect your homes.

Indeed Title Insurance is about covering you were conveyed clean clear title but NOT about protecting it thereafter. Those companies collect premiums but pay few claims because if there’s any doubt whatsoever those are excluded in policy exemptions which many realtors aren’t even familiar with.


Thanks to Jocco for starting an informative thread, best wishes to all here

John T

Thanks John T for chiming in and good advise.

 

[JOCCO]

Does anyone personally know someone who has had their property stolen through this process?

Yes I do to answer your question. A legal battle ensued. One county is having quite a bit of it enough that the legislature is looking at enacting new laws. Another trick as one on here said is to resell it or borrow against it (i.e. debt) Most of the time these crooks are not interested in the property physically (i.e. to move in) but that happened in one case near me.

 

[Crazy Horse]

I can sorta understand when it is a former tenant that for whatever reason is not paying anymore. But for someone that just moved themselves in and made it home, that should not happen.

If someone were to decide to squat in my house, they better get used to the idea of a 300 lb guy that snores and sleeps au natural living with them.

"a 300 lb guy that snores and sleeps au natural living with them."

Yup, that'd do it for me. A simple "I'm outa here" and away I would go ..... ha!