Deere Flangeless Thrust Bearings

[Biz]

I'm in the process of an in-frame rebuild on a JD 1630 with 3-179 engine, my first diesel rebuild. I decided to use JD bearings for mains and rods. When I picked them up, the thrust bearing was the "newer" flangless style.

Ok, so I ask the guy at the counter, do I need thrust washers, and he says I don't think so, nothing came up as needed extra on the computer, and he's not seen anybody get washers with bearings before.

Ok, I guess, magical bearings. As fate should have it I didn't get the rear bearing installed that day, so I called my machine shop. He said he didn't work on JD personally but he thought it would need separate thrust washers.

Does anybody know if JD makes/sells magical thrust bearings that don't require separate thrust washers? They do have thrust washers for other bearings, but I can't prove it for mine. Do I need a new parts guy? Thanks.

 

[used red MN]

This tractor built in Spain? Far from an expert just know how to access the parts catalog. I would say the items in number 2 are the thrust bearings. If you go up to the top of the page and click “Engine -20” you can veiw the other engine parts sections. One is for undersized bearings.
JD 1630 parts catalog
Edit: Sorry, Biz should have welcomed you, here is a hello! You user name is close to his so I thought he was posting thins. Also I am not sure if the parts catalog I linked is for your tractor, that is why I asked the Spain question. Go the the New Parts Search box and type in 1630 and search then you will see there are 4 options.

 

[Biz]

This tractor built in Spain? Far from an expert just know how to access the parts catalog. I would say the items in number 2 are the thrust bearings. If you go up to the top of the page and click “Engine -20” you can veiw the other engine parts sections. One is for undersized bearings.
JD 1630 parts catalog
Edit: Sorry, Biz should have welcomed you, here is a hello! You user name is close to his so I thought he was posting thins. Also I am not sure if the parts catalog I linked is for your tractor, that is why I asked the Spain question. Go the the New Parts Search box and type in 1630 and search then you will see there are 4 options.

This tractor built in Spain? Far from an expert just know how to access the parts catalog. I would say the items in number 2 are the thrust bearings. If you go up to the top of the page and click “Engine -20” you can veiw the other engine parts sections. One is for undersized bearings.
JD 1630 parts catalog
Edit: Sorry, Biz should have welcomed you, here is a hello! You user name is close to his so I thought he was posting thins. Also I am not sure if the parts catalog I linked is for your tractor, that is why I asked the Spain question. Go the the New Parts Search box and type in 1630 and search then you will see there are 4 options.

Thanks for the response and hello.

It is from Spain with SN above 50000. That's the parts catalog bookmark I start with when searching. Under that Spanish tractor, the engine shows a diagram with flanged bearing, which of course, has been replaced.

The link you sent was for the German made, I think. That was my earliest bookmark for parts, and how I learned the hard way that all 1630s weren't created equal.

I hadn't gone back to it for this, but it does show the flangeless bearing and thrust washers, so I'll see if I can get the part numbers to cross reference.

 

[Biz]

I should also mention, this engine has had its bottom end worked over at least once before. After the week or more of looking at these bearings I've started thinking maybe I should replace the existing aftermarket flanged bearing with a similar part.

I have the part number and found an equivalent replacement. Assuming they used the right parts, assuming, it might be better to use the aftermarket version for this one, remove a possible variable? Maybe.

 

[rustred]

I would think if u have the bottom end apart, should be able to tell if it needs thrust washers. Or post a pic of that set up. Engines do need a thrust brg on the crank.

 

[Biz]

The existing is definitely a flanged thrust bearing. A Federal-Mogul bearing, as it were.

More back story, I pulled one main and one rod bearing and both were .010 over/undersized. Great, order a set, then found the rear main was .020" Ugh.

But, that saved me from taking bad parts counter advice. I wouldn't have been able to sleep had I been able to install without the washers. I was googling stuff in the parking lot trying to prove myself right before I left the dealership, but couldn't.

I've done a couple engines before, years ago, but they had flanged thrust bearings. Frustrating "knowing" better but being told otherwise. That's why I'm here...

 

[Biz]

And the link red MN sent for the non-Spain version (I think non-Spain) had bearings that cross reference with the new part numbers I got from JD, so in theory they had the bearings but the washers didn't show up as related. I don't know how it works for them.

I do appreciate the assistance to show they do exist. It didn't make sense otherwise.

 

[used red MN]

And the link red MN sent for the non-Spain version (I think non-Spain) had bearings that cross reference with the new part numbers I got from JD, so in theory they had the bearings but the washers didn't show up as related. I don't know how it works for them.

I do appreciate the assistance to show they do exist. It didn't make sense otherwise.

The Spain built parts diagram show number 12 as the thrust bearing. Maybe wherever you were looking at buying parts had only the regular bearings available but didn’t have the thrust or flanged bearings available.
JD 1630 Spain built parts catalog

 

[Biz]

It was my local Deere dealership, I just thought they'd be familiar with such things when I asked about it, repeatedly.

The bearing I got was a JD thrust bearing minus the flange/washers. It even has notches to engage the washers, which really had me going hmm. RE27351

In my googling it sounds like JD has gone mostly to multi-part for new thrust bearings, does that sound right? The price for the complete set is about 8 times aftermarket cost. Most aftermarket bearings appear to be old school flanged.

Disaster was averted, hopefully, so not the end of the world, but it had potential to be bad. Always get 2nd or 3rd opinions if it doesn't sound right.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

When you're putting this thing together, remember that the multi-piece thrust washers must pinned or locked in some fashion to keep them from rotating in the block. Never having seen inside this motor, lm confused as to how these two radically different bearing styles can be swapped, unless the appropriate machine work was done at the factory to allow this.

 

[wore out]

When you're putting this thing together, remember that the multi-piece thrust washers must pinned or locked in some fashion to keep them from rotating in the block. Never having seen inside this motor, lm confused as to how these two radically different bearing styles can be swapped, unless the appropriate machine work was done at the factory to allow this.

The bearing shells have "tabs" on them that engage with the separate thrust washer halves.

https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/m...b-2-1114-engine-bearing-failures-brochure.pdf

Section 23 on Page 27 explains why separate thrust bearings can carry more load.

 

[TerryfromSWIowa]

Flanged bearings are becoming obsolete because of cost to manufacture. Bearing manufacturing is getting so cutthroat they have to drop losses in manufacturing. Used to be they could absorb the cost in the rod and mains to cover the loss not anymore, so thrust washers were developed. Some were assembled in the factory, some fitted when installed.