Did some Super C electrical testing, more questions

JohnV2000

Member
Based on advice from others, I did some electrical system testing.

The heavy black wire from the coil to the center of the distributor is what I tested first. Since someone mentioned the one end of the wire looked bad, I used wire snips to clean it up and feed it through a new brass end cap. I think it is good now, both ends look like they should based on pictures, I do not think the wire is the problem.

Anyways, I unplugged that heavy black wire from the center of the distributor, left it plugged into the coil, and did the test. I turned on the ignition and turned the engine over while holding the end of the wire (with insulated pliers) about 1/8 inch away from a bare spot on the block. No spark jumped. I turned over the engine several times to be sure, but there was no jump any time. From my basic understanding of the electrical system, I think that means the distributor and therefore spark plugs are not getting any spark.

I have a voltage meter and also did some voltage meter testing. The battery read at about 12.40 volts, and I got a reading of about 11.5 to 11.7 at both sides of the resistor, and I got the same reading at the connection between the resistor and the coil. To me, this means the coil is getting voltage, but somehow it is not getting transferred to the distributor and spark plugs. Is the coil bad? From what I see, a new one is only 20 dollars or so.

Thanks,

John
 
Test the coil ohms. Don't remember the
values off the top of my head, but that
will tell you if you have problems with
it.
 
Does the voltage go to zero or test light go out when connected to the small wire going to the distributor when turning over the engine with crank or starter? If it
doesn't the problem is with the points not grounding the coil. Not adjusted right. dirty, corroded. See John T's post below. His test procedures are the best out there.
 
John, the coil may be bad HOWEVER I first suspect the points is the problem. I thought I already told you this ????? but here goes again.

1) If you put a 6/12 test lamp on the coils small side input terminal that's wired to the ballast resistor, it should come ON anytime the
Ign Switch is turned ON DOES IT ?????????

2) Next, Place it over on the coils other small side terminal (one that wires to side of distributor) turn on ignition and crank engine
over IT SHOULD FLASH ON (when points are open) BUT GO OFF (when points are closed).... If it never flashes ON and OFF shes not gonna work
right. If it stays on regardless of engine or dist position or when cranked over shes never gonna work...

IF IT STAYS ON shes never gonna fire because a good set of working and proper gapped points should close fully which takes that to ground
causing the light to go off. If badly burned or not closing she cant fire

IF IT STAYS OFF shes never gonna fire because the points are shorted or condensor is shorted or the distributors side stud pass thru is
shorted.

You need to take the dist cap and dust cap off and insure the points are good, clean, and gapped and are closing fully AND NOT BADLY
BURNED OR CARBONED OR PITTED SO BADLY they aren't working.

Its possible to test the coil with an ohm meter to see if its total BAD like a short or an open HOWEVER it can pass low voltage low energy
ohm meter tests yet still be bad upon high voltage and HV breakdown and once it warms up


OKAY for your help I have copied and pasted my troubleshooting Procedure to tell what the problem is but you ahve to work through it

TROUBLESHOOTING A BATTERY POWERED EXTERNAL COIL TYPE IGNITION SYSTEM:
PRELIMINARY CHECKS:

(A) To see if it happens to be a cap n rotor problem and to see if at least the coil is firing, remove the coil wire from the distributor
(leave coil end intact) and place its bare end to within 1/8 inch from tractor iron, turn her on n crank her over, and see if she jumps
that gap with a good visible blue spark?????? If so but the plug wire ends (from wire end to 1/8 inch to frame) or the plugs themselves
don?t fire, its a cap n rotor or plug wire problem. If the coil wire isnt even sparking, see below.

(B) Next open the cap and see that the points are gapped correct and indeed opening and closing as the engine is cranked and the
distributor shaft rotates and MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY !!!!!!!!!!!! If so, running a point file between
them to clean them up might make her run again HOWEVER that?s only a temporary cure, so if that cleaning makes her spark, INSTALL N GAP NEW
POINTS. In the event they appear good but only gray oxide coated, non abrasively clean/buff/polish them using say a dollar bill or shop
cloth etc. and see what happens.

MORE TROUBLESHOOTING IF ALL THE ABOVE STILL FAILS TO MAKE HER SPARK

1) THE VERY FIRST THING YOU GOTTA HAVE is voltage to be present on the coils high supply (NOT to distributor) terminal when you turn the
Ignition switch ON. If not she cant ever fire, but in the event the ignition switch or circuit/wire down to the coil or any Ballast
Resistor is bad or open, you can HOT WIRE it by jumping a hot ungrounded battery voltage source to the coils high input supply (NOT to
distributor) side n see if she runs then???? If she fires hot wired, you could have a bad ignition switch ((That can happen, when Ignition
is on, the switches IGN terminal must turn hot)),,,,,,,or an open Ballast (if it has one) or a bad/open wire from switch to coil.

If the switch is good, if you turn the ignition switch on and place a test lamp on the coils high (NOT to distributor) terminal SHE MUST
LIGHT UP. If not again, look for an open Ballast Resistor (if it has one, it should read around 1.25 to 2 ohms across its terminals) or
bad/open wires from the switches IGN output down to the Ballast (if it has one) and distributor.

2a) When the Ignition switch is turned on, voltage should appear on the coils high input side. That would be 6 volts on a straight 6 volt
system or 12 volts on a 12 volt non external ballasted system, or around 6 volts on a 12 volt system that used a 6 volt coil plus an
external Ballast Resistor and the coil is good and the points are closed and they and ALL wiring is good.

2b) To insure the coils low voltage primary winding is not bad/open, use an ohmmeter and measure its DC resistance between its lil + and -
terminals. If its an open circuit (no continuity) its bad/open and will NOT work. It should measure around 1.25 to 2 ohms or so if its a 6
volt coil and maybe 2.5 to 3.5 if its a 12 volt internally ballasted coil. NOTE CAUTION have all leads and any voltage source DISCONNECTED
FROM the coil for this simple primary winding continuity test. 3) Next, place your voltmeter or test lamp over on the coils other low to
distributor terminal side, turn her on and crank the engine over.

4) A test lamp there should flash ON (when points are open) and OFF (when points are closed) as the engine is cranked slowly.

5a) If the lamp never comes on there, the coils primary is bad/open,,,,,,,,,,or the points are never opening,,,,,,,,,or theres a
shorted/bad condensor (remove its lead to points and see if lamp comes on, if so, bad shorted condensor or its wiring),,,,,,,,or the points
wire is shorted,,,,,,,,or the distributors side pass thru stud is grounded (use ohm meter to test that),,,,,,,,,or the points may have a
shorted spring.

5b) If the lamp never goes off as engines cranked, the points are not closing or are bad,,,,,,,,or the wire or circuit is missing from the
distributor to the points,,,,,or the distributors not well grounded to the tractor.

She cant fire the coil unless its low side is getting a conductive ground return path via closed points and then the circuit is open when
the points open.

Be sure the condensor or its wiring is NOT shorted out and see if the lite comes on (when points open) with the condensor disconnected. If
removing the condensor makes her spark, replace the condensor.

SUMMARY

Be sure the points are closing fully and open on high cam and ARE NOT BURNED OR PITTED OR CARBONED UP BADLY,,,,,,,theres voltage present on
distributors high side at all times when ignitions on (or its a bad switch or open ballast or bad wiring to col),,,,,,,voltage on coils low
side flashes on and off as distributor is cranked,,,,,,,,,condensors not bad/shorted,,,,,,,,no shorts in wires to points and no shorts in
pass thru side out distributor stud,,,,,,,,coil has continuituy.

You may luck out n just need a new set of points. If the coil wire fires (see above) and the plug wire ends to 1/8 from frame but NOT the
plugs, they are badddddddddddd. Check them BOTH.

John T
 
(quoted from post at 12:53:54 05/19/20) Based on advice from others, I did some electrical system testing.

The heavy black wire from the coil to the center of the distributor is what I tested first. Since someone mentioned the one end of the wire looked bad, I used wire snips to clean it up and feed it through a new brass end cap. I think it is good now, both ends look like they should based on pictures, I do not think the wire is the problem.

Anyways, I unplugged that heavy black wire from the center of the distributor, left it plugged into the coil, and did the test. I turned on the ignition and turned the engine over while holding the end of the wire (with insulated pliers) about 1/8 inch away from a bare spot on the block. No spark jumped. I turned over the engine several times to be sure, but there was no jump any time. From my basic understanding of the electrical system, I think that means the distributor and therefore spark plugs are not getting any spark.

I have a voltage meter and also did some voltage meter testing. The battery read at about 12.40 volts, and I got a reading of about 11.5 to 11.7 at both sides of the resistor, and I got the same reading at the connection between the resistor and the coil. To me, this means the coil is getting voltage, but somehow it is not getting transferred to the distributor and spark plugs. Is the coil bad? From what I see, a new one is only 20 dollars or so.

Thanks,

John
As many have stated you need to check your points inside the distributor first. It is not uncommon for them to get corroded.
 
John, if after you run some of my tests listed below and then you are convinced the coil is bad and the problem is NOT the cheaper set of
points or some other issue, sure try try a new coil.

John T
 
If its a 12 volt coil the LV Primary resistance may be in the 2.5 to 4 ohm range. The HV Secondary will be several thousand ohms. HOWEVER even if a coil passes the low voltage low energy ohm meter checks it can still be bad due to HV breakdown especially after it warms up.

John T
 
Added content. If the voltage reads the same on both sides of the resistor, the points are not conducting voltage to ground.
Either they are open because the engine is in that position that the little cam pushes them open, or they are dirty/corroded,
and not conducting electricity. A fine emery board (fingernail type stiff sand paper) will work to clean them. Move sideways
toward the engine and away, not in and out. Then clean the cleaning with a folded dollar bill pulled between the points.
Ehen the little cam is pushing them open as far as they can (high point) the gap is .020". Jim
 
EXACTLY Jim, I've told him like 3 times to see if a test lamp on the coils output goes off when the points are closed (as they normally are when tractor isn't running) in which case there would be current flow to ground and as you well know there would be an I x R voltage drop across the ballast. I don't think he has good enough electrical understanding to get this but hey I will try my best to help him. Assisting younger tractor lovers is a noble cause in my opinion and I'm glad to help anytime I can...

John T
 
Thanks for your help everyone. I have a pretty busy day today, but I will work through all the troubleshooting stuff tomorrow. I will update everyone with what my multi meter and test light find.
 

Hook your test light ground clamp to the engine block. Turn the ignition on. Check for power at the terminal of the coil the small wire goes to the distributor from. If the light is on the points are open if it is out they are closed. Holding the probe on that terminal, make sure tractor is in neutral, then crank the engine over. Does the test light stay on steady or does it rapidly go of and on? The coil will not make the high voltage to send to the distributor if the light does not flicker (Primary circuit has to collapse as described in the picture of a coil I posted for you yesterday). Flickering indicates the points are working. No flickering means you need to be focusing on the points and condenser, not the coil. This is what the guys are suggesting to you. Don't get caught in the "I know that's the problem trap", and focus on just the one thing (in this case the coil), do all the diagnosis checks.
 
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